Jeremy Crawford explains that any spell capable of targeting more than one creature cannot be twinned, even if used against a single target. However, when casting a spell that targets only one creature and doesn’t have a range of self, sorcerers can spend a number of sorcery points equal to the spell’s level to target a second creature in range with the same spell (1 sorcery point if the spell is a cantrip). Twinned spells allow sorcerers to cast a spell on two separate targets simultaneously, but not all spells can be twinned. To twin a spell, sorcerers must spend a number of sorcery points equal to the spell’s level.
Twinned spells allow sorcerers to cast a spell on two separate targets simultaneously, but not all spells can be twinned. To twin a spell, sorcerers must spend a number of sorcery points equal to the spell’s level. Some spells that can no longer be twinned include Dark vision, Gaseous form, Greater invisibility, Mage Armor, Protection from energy, Spider climb, Concentration Spells like Haste, spells that can be re-cast, and non-cantrip spells like Witchbolt and Hunters Mark.
In D and D 5E, twin casting requires a spell that targets only one creature, while spiritual weapons do not. However, some great spells to twin include Chromatic orb and blindness/deafness, which can trigger chaos effects. Metamagic: Twin Spell turns some spells into AOE spells instead of letting players focus on two different spells. In summary, Twinned spells allow sorcerers to target two different creatures with the same spell, but not all spells can be twinned.
📹 We Need to Talk About Twinned Spell… #dnd #dungeonsanddragons
Twinned Spell has been redesigned for the 2024 Dungeons and Dragons Player’s Handbook. We talk about all the changes and …
Can fire bolt be twinned?
The Fire Bolt spell is not eligible for twinning due to its ability to target an object. The question thus arises as to whether there are alternative options for targeting a single creature. Otherwise, a Fireball could be twinned at multiple creatures. It should be noted that JavaScript may be disabled or blocked by extensions, and cookies may not be supported.
Is Flames or FIrebolt better?
Firebolt is a range-enhancing finisher and a good finisher up close when an enemy is disabled. Flames is for close quaters, and a higher dps can be achieved by casting alternating bursts with flames in each hand. Your IP address has been temporarily blocked due to a large number of HTTP requests. Common causes include the latest version of the Opera browser sending multiple invalid requests to our servers for every page visited, using the Brave browser or Ghostery add-on, which send extra traffic to our servers for every page visited, and using GameFAQs regularly with these browsers can cause temporary or permanent IP blocks due to these additional requests.
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Can Eldritch blast be twinned?
The Twin spell can be utilized in conjunction with the Eldritch Blast when the character’s level is below 5th, but it is designed to target multiple enemies and therefore should not be employed after that point. It is preferable to utilize the Twin spell on Hold Person/Monster or Haste rather than inflicting additional damage.
Can you twinned spell chaos bolt?
The spell Chaos Bolt, which initially targets one creature, can be targeted under certain conditions. It is inaccurate to state that the spell is “incapable of targeting more than one” creature. Rather, it is “improbable that it will target more than one.” It is therefore not possible to twin Chaos Bolt.
Why can’t you twin spell fireball?
A spell must be incapable of targeting multiple creatures at its current level of power. This limitation precludes the use of spells such as Magic Missile. The spell Firebolt is an appropriate candidate for this purpose. It should be noted that the game may contain content that is not appropriate for all age groups. This may include general mature content, as well as nudity or sexual content. To update content preferences on Steam, the following steps must be followed.
Can I twin spell Firebolt?
The Fire Bolt 5e spell is not compatible with the Twinned Spell metamagic option due to its capacity to target objects. However, the majority of Dungeon Masters permit the use of twinning for creatures only.
What is the twinned spell rule?
The D and D 5E Free Basic Rules only cover a portion of the content available on Roll20, including races, subclasses, backgrounds, feats, items, monsters, spells, and more. Players can explore the Player’s Handbook, Dungeon Master’s Guide, and Monster Manual for more options. As a sorcerer, they gain class features such as Hit Points, which are 1d6 per sorcerer level, 6 at the first level, and 1d6 or 4) at higher levels after the first. These features are based on the spell’s level and the player’s Constitution modifier.
Can I twinned spell haste?
The text posits that a spell that allows a roll that affects multiple creatures before its duration expires cannot be twinned. This is particularly relevant in the context of the spell Haste, which grants an attack roll that can affect two creatures. This assertion is corroborated by the wisdom of the ages.
Can you counterspell a twin spell?
A spell that doesn’t stack if cast twice under normal circumstances creates redundant effects if successfully twinned. For instance, a twinned charm person doesn’t create a more potent or long-lasting effect, but any ally must succeed on two dispel attempts to free the target. Twinning a spell doesn’t affect its vulnerability to counterspelling, so a single successful counterspell negates both instances of a twinned spell.
Can Cantrips be twinned?
The D and D 5E Free Basic Rules only cover a portion of the content available on Roll20, including races, subclasses, backgrounds, feats, items, monsters, spells, and more. Players can explore the Player’s Handbook, Dungeon Master’s Guide, and Monster Manual for more options. As a sorcerer, they gain class features such as Hit Points, which are 1d6 per sorcerer level, 6 at the first level, and 1d6 or 4) at higher levels after the first. These features are based on the spell’s level and the player’s Constitution modifier.
Can you twinned spell fire bolt?
The Fire Bolt 5e spell is not compatible with the Twinned Spell metamagic option due to its capacity to target objects. However, the majority of Dungeon Masters permit the use of twinning for creatures only.
📹 How to Use Twinned Spell
Hello and welcome to this lesson on the sorcerer’s metamagic ability: twinned spell! We’ll cover the rules of using this feature, and …
Some points that I wanted to address that I only lightly touched on so I wanted to highlight them: Some are saying that 2024 Twinned Spell doesn’t let the Sorcerer do anything “unique” or that any other caster can’t do, namely “upcast”. This, is just untrue. Yes, any caster can upcast, however, Sorcerers, by virtue of Twinned Spell, are able to cast spells at an effective level higher than they have the spell slots to support. This is something that is exclusive to the Sorcerer class. A Wizard can not cast Banishment at 5th level until they reach at least level 9. I should also emphasize, that Twinned Spell is not upcasting the spell, it is instead providing that effect. It is a nuanced but important difference since you are expending a non spell slot resource to accomplish this. It’s also important to mention that this is fundamentally how any of the 2014 Twinned Spells worked when the chosen spell had an “upcast” option except now it’s a whole lot cheaper. By the same token, I’ve seen some saying that the Wizard is essentially “just 2 levels behind the Sorcerer”. Firstly, 2 levels is quite a bit. But secondly, that only assumes that the Sorcerer is using something like Banishment once, and not twice, which they absolutely could do, which would functionally give them 2 5th level spell slots, putting them even more “levels behind”. This also doesn’t factor in the that they can then continue to do this with lower level spells and with things like Sorcerous Restoration granting even more Sorcery Points and the fact that they can convert Spell Slots into Sorcery Points if they really wanted to.
I read all the comments and I don’t think the name is the problem, I think the wording of the feature is what’s making people feel so distinctly less-empowered. 7:08 The 2014 version presents this as a spell which initially can only target 1 creature, and lets you spend points to change that. Now you get to target a second creature. It feels like you’re circumventing the natural laws with this very special ability. That is to say it feels well, magical. The fact that you spend sorcerery points equal to the spell’s level is presented as pretty incidental, the highlighted benefit here is the second creature you can target. To underscore this, the creature reiterates that the spell has to be incapable of targeting more than one creature at the spell’s current level. It’s really emphasizing that you’re taking a spell which usually can’t multi-target, and using your power to break that rule. Compare this to the 2024 description. It says that the spell you’re casting is already capable of targeting an additional creature (when cast with a higher level spell slot), and presents the main benefit of this feature as being able to spend Sorcerery Points (note; it’s even capitalized this time) to increase the spell’s level. Which feels like “wait isn’t that just upcasting?” even though it’s actually extremely similar to the effect of the 2014 version. The difference? ✨Presentation!✨ I think most of the reaction you’re seeing is the result of a subconscious interpretation of these different descriptions leading to feeling empowered beyond the normal rules of the game, or feeling the rules are restricting the uniqueness, and consequently the entire fantasy, of the class.
5:42, it fundamentally, conceptually, practically, literally, etc…, pick your favorite word. It isn’t the same. It targets different spells and encourages different tactics in combat. If they didn’t like it, they should’ve dropped twin and called it something different. I believe the only reason why it’s even called twined is to loop in that other rule where if you have two things named the same, you’re suppose to take the new version.
Being able to do really cool dynamic stuff with metamagic was the compensation sorcerers got for having fewer slots, a smaller selection and fixed spells. Twinning was one of the few metamagics that actually achieved that goal. If they were going to hard nerf one of the sorcerer’s best tools they should have at least softened the blow with significantly more compatible spells
Twinned Spell is great because it always edges into the next Spell Level while others are simple not strong enough, granted it can upcast to gain an additional target. Example: While everyone is casting Hold Person at 2nd level as a 3rd level caster, Sorcerer’s upcast (Twinned) for 3rd level at level 3.
One small wish I had with the feature; if it would label which spells could be twinned, at least for the sorcerer spell list. Similar to how concentration spells are marked with a “C” or rituals are marked with an “R”; I wish that twin-able spells would be marked with a “T” Love the website man, keep up the good work!
I think what people mean when they say the new ‘Twinned Spell’ is less ‘unique’ isnt that the 2024 version doesn’t stand out as a unique ability, but that the ability itself doesn’t really do anything outstanding with spells anymore. For example: in 2014 you could Twinned Spell Dissonant Whispers, a single target spell that has no capability of targeting multiple people, even when upcast. Spending a sorcery point there would fundamentally change how that spell works, which gave Twinned Spell a particular appeal that you could only find in the hands of Sorcerers. Now it simply upcasts spells but only spells that add targets when upcasts, something that every other spellcaster can do, except sorcerers can do it in exchange for a sorcery point instead. You aren’t ‘bending the rules of magic’ anymore, not in the same way anyway. I’m not saying 2014 is better than 2024 or vice versa, but the changes made do make a big difference in how it FEELS to use Twinned Spell now. At risk of sounding a bit cliche… Twinned Spell lost a bit of its magic.
You may not have realized it but you just proved to me that this new metamagic is very nerfed (that is not a bad word you can use “worsened” it you fear the word). Yes it let you do things but the effect on the game even as said by you was minimal. Think about it twin revivify just means that you had two “done” PC that you are preventing from being all gone and thus preventing a party wipe – so the designers really wanted that? (Point to remember most players leave the table at 3 points first couple sessions, end of campaign and character demise) In an odd way you also make the case that all the same positive effects could have been given by making the meta magic 1 point. The fact that you feel it adds to that reality. The massive point cost limited the damage but only was an issue at tables that did not have enough encounters in a game day. So yeah not good.
One of the sillier changes to 5e in my opinion. Twinned Spell was being used to great effect for *teamwork*: revivify, haste, shield of faith, levitate etc. Yeah it might have needed a little tuning, maybe bump the SP cost by 1 point to address the balance somewhat, but twinned spell wasn’t “breaking” anything.
Twinned spell was included in the 2014 PHB. The comment about how the spells were not intended to be used this way is half true at best. It was one of the original features that was released with the original spells. The designers knew what they were doing when they made twinned spell. I understand why people play wizards…they get the most and best spells in the game. Yay for them. They are required to follow the spellcasting rules and I find that incredibly boring. I play sorcerers simply because I get to bend or even break the rules of spell casting. I never once felt like I had to take twinned spell, I felt like i got to. Having more eligible options weighed againsy the cost is what made it fun. And i have never heard of a situation where twinned spell ever broke the game. Regardless, this isn’t a sidegrade. It is a straight nerf. Being able to upcast for a point? Sure, great. But the lack of spell options wrecks the creativity for this metamagic, and takes away a huge part of what makes sorcerers so special. I plan on making both options available in my games. Will it break the game? Maybe…but if DND wasnt already broken then they wouldn’t need to rebuild it from the ground up.
You are contradicting one of the specific design goals named by JC for the phb 2024 He said the goal is to have features be less pidgeonholed and less situational, and not game breaking in those situations and useless elsewhere…. And there we go making twin op in one situation and pointless everywhere else
God…talking about 5.5e is so exhausting. Ah, I should specify that this isn’t aimed at you at all Insight, this was actually a real well put together argument and I’m almost ready to switch up my thinking – the inner lizard brain still feels like something was ‘taken’. But man, it feels like every 5.5e article that shows up is either talking about crippling design flaw or much like this article here, attempting to put out a fire. It just kinda feels like nobody’s excited or even wants this new book, so I’m really struggling to figure out why we’re even here…
The new twin spell could work. The problem is, that there are now very niche uses and not enough spells. Few movement and stealth spells, like fly, spider climb, invisibility (jump lol), some encounter ending spells like banishment, hold person, Blindness. Only one buff spell (freedom of movement) and only one damage spell (chain lighting). I understand the need to nerf twin spell and let other option shine. But as a dm I never found double haste to be OP, or even double healing spells. My problem is with save or suck spells, and that was not addressed. The best metamagic was not twin spell, it was heighten spell. And now it’s even stronger.
My favorite combo was twin spell with vortex warp. A shame I can’t do that anymore. One thing you didnt mention that I think is a buff however, is that you can use Twinned Spell on something you are already upcasting. The level 3 spell Fly targets additional creatures when upcast. So casting it at level 3 with twinned spell is the same as upcasting using a level 4 spell slot and targets two creatures. If i cast Fly as a level 4 spell but also twin spell it, I can now target 3 creatures as if I used a level 5 spell slot. And it’s still just one sorcery point.
Well … Yes, you are doing the same thing … but that thing you do is simply not special anymore. Think of it as this … Imagine that in 2014 there would be a person, who could fly … just like a Superman … that would be something, right? And now imagine that in 2024 everyone would be able to fly … but those people who flyed before, would do that with much less effort … it is a same thing, but its not special anymore. Sorcerers in 2014 were able to break rules … spells that were specifically called for being UNABLE to affect two targets, was sudently ABLE to affect two targets … and that was awesome, unique and special. Now … we can basicaly just upcast. Yes, the effect is the same. Yes, its still powerfull. And yes, it will still be most likely one of most powerfull metamagic option, so Wizards basicaly aschieved nothing in the end. But … since anyone with acess to higher spellslots can do exactly same thing … its no longer special. Thats why it dont feels like twining … Twining was “to force spell that is unable to hit two creatures … to hit two creatures” … aka fundamentaly break the laws of spellcasting. Curent twining dont break anything, we just upcast relatively cheaper. I wonder if there is any 9th level spell we can Twin in this new version … since players never should have acess to 10th level spellslot … Sorcerers would still have at least something that no other class could do, even tho rarely anybody even reached that high … but since there shouldnt be any 10th level .
I don’t disagree with you. It does double the effect of a spell. The issue from what I see is mostly the changes to spells. I see a pattern (intentional or not) of taking the things that players found, and liked to do, away from them. That doesn’t really feel like an improvement to the game. There are/were so many fun combos to try and play with in 5e, that anyone was unlikely to be able to play half of them. I know JC and his crew love the game, and are trying to make more and better options for the game. However, I can’t shake the feeling that we’re all just being pushed into his vision of what dnd should look like. I can not wrap my head around the backgrounds, and how limiting they are in choice. Making the game more accessible to new players is fine, but they’ve really hamstrung experienced players in some areas by doing so. My $0.02 worth.
You make some good points, the but are too unclear about the difference on flavour or power especially in your pinned comment Flavour: what many dislike is that sorceres felt unique and that’s gone. No one argues 2levels higher isn’t good, but most spells you cast aren’t your highest spell slot, so from the outside it’s not unique, in the vast majority of cases the wizard could have done it too if they wanted to, and for the 1 spell casting they can’t “yet(!)” Power: in pushes sorc into a small set of spells that we will see over and over and over in every situation pairing heighten with innate and twin and then banish banish banish banish hold hold hold hold hold Either the dm cranks up the power of encounters to an insane level or doesn’t present creatures where this works. The sorc will be broken either on the upper or lower end. It’s poor design both in flavour and balance. Restricting its use cases while making it cost a quarter is crazy. And nothing said you can’t cast banishment at 6th level and add a fourth creature making the name “twin” dumb^^ The lack of character uniqueness is what bothers me most here to be honest 🙁
Yeah… this isn’t Twin Spell. It’s just upcasting using sorcery points. It doesn’t really feel that cool even if mechanically its pretty good. Thematically it’s very disappointing. I understand and accept the balance reasons why they did this, but it’s still pretty boring and disappointing when you really look at what it does now.
I appreciate your article as always. I disagree. 1) I believe the designers and others have made the mistake of assuming because it was used, that it was overpowered. By that logic battlemaster is the most overpowered class. People play sorc and love to find interesting ways to cast the same old spells, twin fed into that better than the others… 2) Because it had unplanned interactions. It gave high highs in the game when everyone else was playing at a 5, sorc could play at 9 for a couple rounds. Big risk, big rewards, great stories. Now? 3) its just upcast spell on an anemic highly curated list. There are no interesting secrets. There are no neat interactions. Its sorc at 5.5. Yay. Wee. Oh, wow. Really have a lot to choose from here. 4) And the cost of this “lol balance “? A more boring game with a class thats more watered down. Twin spell should have been a baseline feature. It should make people excited to try it on thier whole spell list. It WAS fun and engaging, now it’s a damp washrag, useful but infinitely forgettable.
The scope of the new twinned spell is so limited and the means it goes about it is so different, it makes it feel like it isn’t the same meta magic as before even though it has the same effect. Furthermore, the limited spell options for this twinned spell make it feel worse than the other meta magic options because all other options have much larger pools of spells they can affect. If they dropped the middle of the description this would still be a really good meta magic that lets you upcasts spells at a discount. Call it enhanced spell. The play test one could be called echoed spell. And a buffed but extremely expensive version of 2014 twinned spell can be called twinned spell. I mostly agree with your article, I just don’t think you put an appropriate amount of weight towards how the changes effect the feel of the metamagic
I appreciate your analysis but not calling it a nerf is hugely disingenuous. The fact that it only works on 17 spells now (less than 2 per spell level) means that it is almost completely useless. Most metamagic applied to ANY spell you wanted to cast, narrowing Twin Spell to only a handful means that it will never be taken. Why would you invest a metamagic selection in something that may only affect 1 or 2 of your spells? Sorcerers don’t get many spells as it is and if you look at the list of twinable spells there are only a couple that you would ever take. As you mentioned most of the other metamagic selections were buffed so the nerf was really unnecessary. Optimization aside, the flavor of being able to “break the rules” and do something others casts couldn’t was part of the glory of the spell – that’s gone now. Any class can get multiple targets with these spells, it just costs them a different resource to do it. RIP Twin Spell.
3:20 The problem with the ubiquity is twinned spell is that it’s only ubiquitous, because most of the other metamagic options are just hot ass. Extended, Distant, Trasmuted, Subtle and Careful are all either useless(extended and distant) or very situational(Trasnmuted, Careful, Subtle) Twinned, Quickened and Heightened are the only metamagics really worth picking. This is further compounded by how little MM options you gain Tl;dr the sorcerer class is badly designed
I understand the thought process of trying to make Twinned Spell a less required option, but I think the bigger problem was the strong restrictions on the amount of Metamagic options a sorcerer could take. I think the better design choice (and the one I use at my table) is to have all Metamagic options available to a Sorcerer at 3rd level, and following a long rest, they prepare a number of them equal to their Charisma modifier. This way, even if every single Sorcerer prepares Twinned Spell, they don’t feel restricted to try other ones, and learn how they can be utilized in different situations.
I agree it’s more of a lateral move in power, I just think it’s less fun. As a DM, I did not care about twinning damage spells, it’s twinning control spells like polymorph I worry about. I agree twinned spell needed a change in regards to concentration spells. I don’t love this change, though I don’t hate it. I just think it’s aggressively okay and less fun.
Twinned is completely pointless now. Every other metamagic is now better and your not twinning anything anymore so change the name. Just because they broke it before 2024 release doesn’t mean its not screwed and utterly useless. Insight Check said it himself that basically its only useful with a tiny number of spells and that damage is no longer what it will be primarily used for. Only useful for utility makes it useless to sorcerers. They don’t get the spell book that wizards do so having big options like a metamagic slot limited to just being used to utility spells means its definitely not worth it anymore. And just because they get more spells now doesn’t make this better. Compared to a wizard, sorcerers need to be able to cover everything with only an incredibly limited selection to be able to pull your weight. If one of the slots in the most meaningful feature a class has it tied to something that can only be used for utility in a class that doesn’t emphasize broad utility but being instead is a class that tries to be versatile using a limited selection then that makes twinned pointless. Your way better off getting heightened or seeking in the new rules. You will bet the same function as twinned by waiting and leveling up. Honestly why can’t WOTC ever learn to get the balance right. Every time we actually get something cool they always manage to leave a big stink in at least one part of it. You know why everyone used to like it – again Insight check said it – cos it was really cool.
A 10th level sorcerer can easilly cast 5 twinned hold monsters Cast twinned hold monster twice with their 5th lvl slots and 2 sorcery points Use the remaining 8 to create a 5th slot to twinspell it again. Convert your 2 4th lvl slots for another twinspelled hold monster Convert 2 3’s and a 2 for another twinned hold monster And with your other spells slots/short resting you can also muster up the sorcery points to make all those saves be at disadvantage thanks to heightened spell and sorcery incarnate. Is it a good thing to throw all of your resources at all the time? Probably not but the option being there is kinda nuts
The new version sucks. The sorcerer has always been basically a wizard with a worse spell list. Metamagic is meant to be the way that it gets to be different. The sorcerer can do what no other class can in this one specific way. Now it’s just doing the same old thing, really. Extended spell is basically just a discount on casting a spell again, as is twin spell. Empowered spell and heightened spell are things that other classes can do: roll dice. Sure, it improves your odds, but anyone can already just roll dice. So what if you roll slightly higher? Heightened spell is basically just a magic item with a +3 bonus for all intents and purposes. Only subtle spell is truly unique to sorcerers. No other class can reliably cast without components. That’s what the new twin spell is missing: it robs the sorcerer of one of their truly unique features.
I feel like the playtest version and the 2024 version could have been their own metamagics. And yeah its functionally the same in 2024 but the shear amount of less options is sad. If there were more, it would be fine. I do think there needed to be a penalty to offset how strong the 2014 Twin spell could be. Maybe if you use a concentration spell you get a penalty to concentration checks? Not disadvantage since passive concentration can be a thing. Maybe a penalty equal to the spells level? Since your focusing on two instances of a concentration spell. So sure, you can Twin haste but thats a -3 penalty to concentration. Maybe increase the sorcery point cost for higher level spells? Sure you can Twin Disintegrate but youll burn through most of your sorcery points.
Yeah, so the spell doesn’t “twin” anything, all it does is upcast your spell by 1. As a DM what I would rule for this is that the original Twinned Spell will remain untouched, but have this new version called something different. I would have said Empowered Spell but that’s already a thing with more damage added as the effect. I would call this one Overcharged Spell. It fit’s thematically with the power fantasy of the effect without literally lying to players about what Twinned Spell actually does.
The new twinned spell is a major flavor fail. I have played a sorcerer for a couple short campaigns, but it has become tied for my favorite class (rouge if you’re wondering). I have always considered subtle spell the must take metamagic option, but that’s besides the point. When I take twinned spell, the spells I most often twinned were Suggestion and Hold Person. Under the new rules, the former is no longer possible and for the latter is far more powerful but lacks the proper flavor. I believe this flavor fail stems from keeping the name “twinned” spell. It is no longer “twinning” a spell. It is upcasting a spell for an alternative cost in order to target an additional creature. That is not “twinning” even if the results are usually the same. If I understand the new rules correctly this is now how twinned spell can work: Upcast hold person THEN twinned spell to target THREE or MORE creatures depending on the lvl it was cast. The new twinned spell appears to replace the restriction of spells cast with a single target with spells that can be upcast to have multiple targets. This allows you to have the initial spell already target multiple creatures. So now you are no longer twinning (doubling) the spell, but are instead just adding one. This is a big enough change to warrant a corresponding name change (they changed the name of “ki points” and those didn’t change mechanically at all). I would be much happier if they had changed the name to something like “Prolific Spell” because it better fits the new flavor of ADDING to the number of creatures targeted rather than MULTIPLYING.
I would have been way happier if we had the old and new versions in tandem, but making a clear definition of what could and could not be cast. Twinned spell but with the implication that it can’t be used on any spell that needs concentration ALONGSIDE this option, dubbed something like “expanded spell” or something, maybe. 5e24’s designers should have kept with the theme of giving more options.
I wonder if part of the issue is they’ve taken away some of the uniqueness in the sense that sorcerors being able to twin non-upcastable/more target spells allowed them to do things other casters couldn’t. Twin haste, twin Phantasmal Force for example. It was unique. The new version is nerfed and buffed and perhaps more balance. Take the Banishment example – it now only costs you 1 sorc point to hit two targets vs 4 before, and you can do it at lvl 7 rather than 9 when you have lvl 5 spells. But another caster at lvl9 can do the same thing just using the higher level slot. Is the sorcerer getting the better deal? Yeah, probably – especially considering 2 levels of advantage time wise being able to do that thing. For spells it can be used on – particularly higher level spells like Banish – it’s a new efficiency gain resource wise. But it’s less useable across the range of spells. Now looking at a lot of the other metamagics most are situational. Heighten (excellent but save based spells), seeking (attacks), extended (buffed now to provide conc protection but still only duration or conc spells), careful spell (AOE spells with friendly fire), quicken spell (anything, but situational by application), subtle spell (anything but situational by application). Most metamagics are situational and now Twin is one of them. Before the only requirement was having two targets and the spell being single target only, but the cost was it was only efficient at lower level spells (but people still used it anyway as the opportunity cost of using it on those higher level spells was strong).
I think this version is great, and it works with old spells not reprinted if they’re allowed by the DM, like Mind Whip. Twinning mind whip, hold person would be go-to options from early levels all the way through level 20. And then banishment and hold monster up at higher levels. I love it. I do agree with an earlier comment about losing out on twinning cantrips being a shame.
I think most of the controversy is around the designer’s need to keep the name the same. There’s really no doubt that the option needed to be toned down: it was basically a no brainier-must-pick-option that was far above it’s peers. This lead to nonsensical Sage Advice nerfs like “you can’t use it on Dragon’s Breath,” even though you clearly could according to the written rules. I get that it is not quite as cool as the initial 2014, as you now have a limited pool of spells it will work on, but it only costs a single SP.
I do understand that when a game gives you an option, it does not want you to feel forced to choose the strongest. All options should be balanced, and you should pick what you like, not what is best. This is one of the reasons they changed twinned spell, reducing its spell options and removing its strongest combos. They also empowered the sorcerer with innate sorcery and other features, so they had to balance all these buffs with some veiled nerfs. Unique twinned spells that couldn’t be achieved by other spellcasters even at higher levels will surely be missed, but now the sorcerer is stronger than ever. Homebrewing twinned spell to work like its old version would be a bit much imo, it would be unfair to other casters that are left behind. Sorcerers are already arguably the strongest arcane casters, buffing them even more is just unbalanced. If you really like the old twinned spell so much, you could just play the old sorcerer. I don’t mean to dictate how anyone should have fun, I am just expressing my opinion here.
I love the new version of careful spell. As a GM with a general “no non-consensual pvp” rule, the old version of that meta magic was still not usable unless your ally agreed to get fireballed (for half damage). This new version of the meta magic is a huge help for keeping things friendly and civil at the table.
Twined Spell now is more like “cast the spell one level higher”. In early levels could twin ray of frost to slow down two targets, twin Mage Armor to put i two people, twin Word of Healing to lift two dying allies. Be a sorcerer was wirited as bend a spells to do what you like, do things that should be impossible if you was not a sorcerer, but now we just cast a spell normaly like any caster with a high level spell would and its not bend a spell is just cast like everyone else. People overlook powerfull spells to twin as polymorph and power death ray but never look at how usefull is even in “weak” spells.
Keeping the old version of Twinspell. I don’t always take it, but when i did, it filled gaps in the party comp. Twining healing word to keep the party up has saved us from PC deaths more than once. The higher cost more than makes up for the increased versatility. Also: “Change that adversely effects the way i use this feature” can be described as a ‘Nerf’ without the person saying it being dishonest, so save the whole ” It is not a nerf it is a sidegrade’ shtick, for some, this is a downgrade.
This change just means that sorcerers get to use crowd control spells better than other casters. You say the new book targeted ubiquity, but this option will likely still be ubiquitously taken. Why wouldn’t a level 3 sorcerer take it if it means that they can cast hold person on 3 guards so the party can focus 1 down and auto crit the rest?
8:39 some spells are straight up missing, like I can’t find them but if I click the link when they’re in a list it takes me to the description. Grasping Vine is one of them, not in the Spells G section, but if I click it in the Druid’s spell list in their class chapter I can read the spell’s description
uhm… looking at my dnd beyond characters on 2024 rules …. twinned spell is insanely cost effective – two (or more, depending on what slot you use + the effect of twinning) instances of haste – fly hold monster + probably more. hold monster targeting an extra target FOR 1 SORCERY POINT is bonkers! it’s been reigned in but it’s not worse unless all you think about is dealing damage… which if you think about it – 2 banished targets allow for precise targeting on those left…
The new *Twinned Spell*, as a concept, works. But its implementation is a let-down – to alleviate the concerns about the ‘sidegrade’, Jeremy Crawford claimed the scope of spells we could upcast would increase… but the implementation of the revised spells in the 2024 PHB are of pitiable scope. I can respect that some spells can’t be upcast to affect more target because they already have an upcast that affects their potency rather than number of targets. My Divine Sorcerer would be thinking Healing Word or Heal here. Okay… fair. But there could have been many other spells. Why don’t the Firebolt/Ray of Frost/Shocking Grasp not have an upcast option? Where’s the upcast Polymorph for affecting multiple targets? Where the upcast Revivify for the Divine Soul? (Not that I think I would need it often, but the possibility was there) Haste has no upcast option and it could have had. Shield of Faith Death Ward? (the still stupidly weak) Protection from Energy? Greater Restoration? They are many missed opportunities here that could have been assets not only to the Twinning Sorcerer but also the Warlock and other classes willing to use a higher spell slot to cover an entire group with a spell.
I do wonder how much of the pushback against this change is caused by the old issue of the elasticity of the adventuring day. If there’s a lot of encounters per long rest, twinning a Polymorph spell in 2014 isn’t such a big balance issue because the cost is significant. It puts a big brake on all the other cool things you can do otherwise – not only fewer metamagic uses (twin polymorph, throw in a couple of quicked spells, and a heightened spell and you’ve just blown 11 Sorcery points!!!!), but it also slows down the economy of trading spell slots for SP. Compare that with the 1-2 combat per day model, where you can basically buildcraft around how to create and spend SP for those couple of encounters on a spreadsheet……How many players have really had to ration SP over 5-6 encounters where blowing 4+ at once represents a big expenditure on daily capability (I don’t include Haste, that’s just completely busted when twinned). I DO think they could’ve done more to lessen the impact of the change by working out how to get a few more spells into the list somehow – attack roll spells, perhaps? – because as you pointed out it is nearly an 80% reduction in options to counter the abuse of maybe a dozen problematic and unintended castings. But I do think it’s much more aligned to intention, and the cheaper cost means you can really lean into those few spells that do still count – you’ll just have to ride out the storm of complaints first to see how well it really lands.
Old twin is dead, but this new thing is great. 1 point for an extra target on some of the best control spells in the game? Yes, please. I’m thinking of it as the single-target equivalent of Careful, which gets you extra targets by safely including allies in a blast. And twin should also work on Command, on the draconic list.
I like the change to twin spell, but I think they needed to make new metamagics to fill the niches openned up by the change, but better balanced for the niche. Like there could be a split spell metamagic for single target healing and attack roll but does half healing/damage and halves any DCs if they have them. Or a shared spell for concentration buffs that makes it harder to keep concentration, but allows you have two people under the effects.
wotc could’ve made a new metamagic called double spell. that lets you cast a single target spell that has an attack roll twice but against 2 different targets. yes technically you can still target +1 creature with this “new version” but it’s just a free upcasting of a spell not the expectation of the word “twin”.
“Stop being clever and creative, and just do what I expected you to” is an absolutely stupid thing for a game designer to tell the players in a TTRPG. Two of the defining virtues of playing at the table top instead of playing a computer game are the opportunity to do and experience the unexpected and the opportunity to feel like you – as a player – have mastered the game, and design decisions like this directly erode that. More so than in any computer game, the answer to the “must pick” problem in the design of a TTRPG really needs to be making other options more attractive – ideally in ways other than simple power incentives – not taking away the players’ toys.
This just seems like another nerf with very poor follow through. They change the way Twinned Spell works, but don’t review the spells well enough to give more options with the new version. They make Hunter’s Mark key to the Ranger class, but don’t do enough work on reducing the number of spells on the Ranger list that require concentration. It makes it very hard to appreciate the new adjustments when Wizards doesn’t do what is needed to make sure there are still plenty of options that synergize with the changes.
“You can spend 1 Sorcery point to increase the spell’s effective level by 1” and now we wait for WotC’s next supplement to have spells that increase the number of targets for every TWO spell levels when upcast. This new version of Twinned Spell will not be making it to my table. Also I let twinned work on the Dragon’s Breath spell because the devs are no fun.
Old twin spell was fantastic for twinning spells, that either couldnt be upcast at all for more targets aka haste/protection from evil(it baffles me that haste still does not have upcasting), or ones where upcasting did not grant a 2nd target aka vortex warp, and sorry i dont believe this is good design…. not when its coming from people who made the new ranger, the class is stronger overall sure, but twin was what truly made the class unique for me, most other metamagicks are there in other classes such as upcasting, but twin that couldnt be replicated
NO! The concept is (was / should be) to cast one spell that normally only targets one target on two!! You got it wrong, they got it wrong! The concept should be to, for example, cast two ray of frost or fire bolts in two different targets. They could just say things like: you can only maintain concentration in one spell / you can only twin spells up to 5th level… or whatever! The things is totally different, is not twinning anything.
My complaint is that this isn’t something that makes the Sorcerer special. The wizard is, at most, only ever 2 levels away from being able to duplicate the sorcerer’s ability on any given spell. Its benefit is so circumstantial now that I don’t think I’d take this option compared to the other Metamagic options.
If they wanted to create an upcast metamagic, they should have called it “Upcast Spell”. Then you could boost stuff like magic missile and scorching ray and have a more general purpose tool. I extremely disagree with the ethos in several places 10:28 “they let the user break the game and do epic things that shouldn’t have been possible without it” 11:00 “as awesome as twinning haste is, the game wasn’t designed with that in mind” 5e is an exception based rule system. BY DEFINITION it is an open ended system and DOES NOT and DOES NOT INTEND TO premeditate every possible combination. Metamagic should be metamagic. Doubling a spell should mean doubling a spell, and yes it should still mean doing so even when previously it couldn’t, because that is the whole point of metamagic. It is literally the exact same thing as subtle spell making an exception for components, or quickened spell changing casting time, or literally any other metamagic. It breaks the rules that exist without it because that is literally how exception based rules systems work. If you felt like you were forced to choose twin spell, that’s just on you. Scanning through all my sorcerers I’ve ever made, I’ve only chosen Subtle Spell, Heightened Spell, Transmuted Spell, Quickened Spell, Careful Spell, and Extended Spell. It’s not wrong to want cool features. It’s not wrong to EXPEND A RESOURCE to get a boost in the game. That is how action surge works. That is how website divinity works. That is how the game works. Removing the twinning of Haste or Revivify doesn’t magical fix the game balance.
What is the purpose of saying and heavily implying both editions are compatible with each other. Then having multiple spells, abilitied, and sub class names be Identical, but have thier effects be wildly different? The only purpose I can see was to shadow “ban” all the old material in DDB onlie space and force everyone to “Update” thier game. If there is a better reason, I cant see one that makes sense. This company is literally trying to by up our imagination play space and I think they will win. Where DnD is cooncerned at least.
A couple things I haven’t seen discussed that I feel are important: 1. There are spells not printed in the new PHB that also work with the new Twinned spell, like Tasha’s Mind Whip, so the list of available spells is effectively longer 2. Twinned spell no longer has the single target requirement, meaning you could twin an UPCASTED spell to target THREE creatures. For example you could cast Banishment at 5th level (targeting 2 creatures), then twin it to increase its effective level to 6th, and target 3 creatures. It allows you to continue to outpace any other full casters with the same spell, and all for only 1 SP
Making the argument that the old twin spell metamagic option being very good that near everyone would take it is a silly one to me. There is always going to be some option, that when available, you take it if you want to have the “best option”. Not all people want the best option, but having the best option available when you need or wish to use it isnt a bad thing and should NOT be discouraged and nor should be attacked that there IS a best option by concensus…Additionally, and I think you fail to note it here, is that you dont get ONE metamagic option for the life the character. I think you even get more now in 2024 making this argument about it be such an obvious choice, 2014 version, really really silly. The 2024 version is dumb, and didnt need to be. It worked fine, everyone liked it, allowed really flexible, cool and powerful options and removing that because the designers decided they didnt want a Sorc to throw two fireballs a turn is moronic. First rule, ESP since this isnt a whole new edition, should have been to do no harm. Upgrade if necessary, but dont touch those features people enjoyed. They failed that test…and were willing to fail it in many other places….I refer back to floated ideas for Sneak Attack limitations to 1 round, and WS templates. They should have listened and left the things people liked alone and worked on the decidedly unpowered stuff….Monks broke even, sure they got a bunch of QOL improvements, but SS nerf negates the forward movement. And while there might be argument that other metamagics got buffed, and that is fine, they DIDNT need to nerf this option as well.
I’m sorry but what you did is prove how hard the spell was nerfed. You can cast 14 Spells with twin spell. You get utility or control spells mainly and one of the better early level control spells – Tasha’s is not on the sorc list. It’s similar to the Divine Smite nerf. People keep claiming its for the good of the game and limiting burst, yet straight valor bards, Druids, Eldritch knights, monks, wizard and Sorcerers can now deal similar or more burst while not spending almost all of their resources. At least twinning now is not unusable like DS is.
The new Twin Spell is OBJECTIVELY worse because almost every spell that upcasts to target more creatures almost universally would have been affected by the old Twin Spell. I’m not sure why they felt the need to nerf it when both versions of the feature have equally confusing requirements. The problem was always that it requires you to know a lot about different spells to even be able to use it effectively and that made it inaccessible to inexperienced players compared to other uses of Sorcery Points.
As a Sorcerer main, I say stop your crying, Sorcerers. You are and always were the most powerful class in the game with the most potential. Those of you who actually know what im talking about, will understand that you were always the best antiwizard/anticaster there was – because Subtle Counterspell. The new version is even more beefy with more spells, Innate Sorcery and now your Subtle Spell requires no material componets either – that means you get to make uncounterable spell attacks using the vast majority of spells available to you. Twin needed a nerf just like Smite and Stunning Fist needed a nerf. Martials now have weapon masteries, which the Ranger dorks seem to forget that synergize so well with their abilities like Hunters Mark. Ranger is going to end up being a DPS output machine. Are casters still more powerful? Of course, and if they werent youd end up with another flavorless spell system like Pathfinder 2E. Theres no crying in DnD and no one wants to hear any more salt from you dorkazoids. Now come and spell duel me, wiotches! 🎩 🪄 🔮 ✨️