A study involving a three-month university course found that confronting falsehoods can be labor-intensive. False conspiracy theories, such as the pandemic being a hoax or a secret bioweapon, continue to spread on social media. Experts and r/ChangeMyView subreddit moderators offer 10 tips to debunk these theories convincingly and kindly. Intellectual humility is crucial for avoiding irrational belief in conspiracy theories. Visualizing positive outcomes can help clamp down on intense emotions that might make people more vulnerable to harmful conspiracy theories.
People who believe in conspiracy theories become more vulnerable and may be exposed to feelings of anxiety, fear, isolation, and vulnerability. Research has shown that endorsement and spreading of conspiratorial content may be associated with worse prejudice toward vulnerable groups, decreased trust in government institutions, lesser trust in government institutions, and lesser trust in government institutions. Emerging psychology research has revealed some tactics that can help protect society from misinformation.
Conspiration theories are abound, and many people believe them even though they are harmful to themselves and their social environment. Some predictors of susceptibility to conspiracy theories include narcissistic personality traits (grandiosity). Social media sites have been flooded with a tsunami of conspiracy theories, including claims about election fraud and warnings about microchips in vaccines. Conspiracy theories often incorporate elements from pseudoscience, employing scientific terms or referring to data, research, sources, and more.
📹 You’re being manipulated and don’t even know it | Nate Pressner | TEDxYouth@Basel
We’re all aware of fake news, but is that all we need to be aware of? As younger generations increasingly get their news from …
📹 Why Smart People Become Conspiracy Theorists with Naomi Klein – Factually! – 237
What is the appeal of conspiracy theories, and how is it that they entrap our friends, coworkers, or family members? Political …
The problem is, the people pulling the strings, your strings, our strings, have put years of research into how do this effectively and imperceptibly. The manipulators have researched psychology and sociology and use our nature to nurture polarization and hot button issues that make people react emotionally rather than with logic and reason.
I feel like this is not news for anyone under 50. I also find comedians that state they are doing news (the now redacted Redacted Tonight) have higher standards for sources and find obscure important matters we never would have heard about. For example, my state OH just mandated fracking in state parks in a bill named: revise number of poultry chicks that may be sold in lots. No one would ever read that law expecting to find a new fracking law. It’s so ridiculous you have to laugh. And don’t forget Fox news has testified they aren’t a news source.
I believe the media is manipulative and this is my list of the reasons 1-In any Tv interviews the anchor is forcing the the guest to say something that’s he don’t wanna say at all by asking him side questions that any answers will lead him there. 2-shutting down the guest in interviews for making a certain point and doesn’t let him finish a point he’s making some times even the sound get cut. 3-the media claiming that they say the truth and nothing but the truth but how many times we caught them red handed lying to our faces. 4-the fact that everything that appears on tv gets prepared before it got broadcast by the News Crew and producers make me questions it! How iam going to trust those people that I don’t know to tell me the truths about any topics they discussing. Their motives and agendas can’t be truste because it’s up to theme to decide what News to put out there on daily basis. In brief media purpose has and been shifted of being the sound of the public to a tool to influence you to think or to act in a certain way.
Notice who tells you the emotions ( particularly negative emotions) to feel and towards whom. You will begin to see patterns and teams. Then if your politically inclined watch the senate hearings in full on Forbes . Not chopped up, on Forbes clips it at least gives the full context. You can make your own judgement as to what’s going on.!
Excellent. I have already been doing what he suggested, looking at more than one source regarding a news info. Especially, when I get a meme, first I look to see what is said about it before I might forward the meme. If it’s funny but not true, I might forward it but with a caption saying that it’s not true, but funny!
3:25 Notice what he does here – “Any information or opinons you come across could plant the seed of an idea in your head without your realizing it.” He says this like having a new idea is an unwelcome thing, especially from an “Untrusted” source. Are we supposed to not talk to our neighbors or socialize? Are we supposed to watch only mainstream news? We are made to learn and grow and develop as people. If we don’t we stagnate and get stuck, repeating the same mistakes over and over. Mistakes aren’t useful unless we MAKE them useful by learning from them, taking an opportunity to learn independently.
00:09 People tend to remember and pay attention to things that are interesting or funny. 01:22 Increase in competition led to less fact-checking 02:18 Our attention became the product instead of news. 03:18 Late-night talk show hosts may influence our political beliefs. 04:20 Young people are increasingly getting news from non-traditional sources like YouTube. 05:19 Be discerning and aware of manipulative content. 06:15 Recognize untrusted sources and seek a balanced view 07:08 Critical thinking is crucial in a world of manipulated information.
Perhaps we should teach our young people about marketing concepts and how they work. The idea behind imagery and what it does to shape opinions. Sounds, smells, colors…..all are put to work. The descriptive words that reporters use are very good ‘tells’ about the real intent in influencing the listener or reader’s opinion. Deep down we know certain words have a negative connotation, but when delivered in a sugared tone our radar doesn’t seem to pick up on it. The BIGGEST problem are the tech giants and greedy corporations who put America last and their pocketbooks first.
Excellent talk, particularly because I was looking for a way to explain journalism to a younger person. It made me even more acutely aware of the fact that it barely exists anymore. All I would add that I think is critical to remember is that news is a word. Some people use that word on their TV show as part of the title. There are no legal parameters for the word news. So declared a superior court in Florida when citing in favor of Fox News, being sued for lying. No I believe this case did not involve either slander or libel, which would make it a different legal situation. They were being sued because they lied. they reported incorrect details often, they made stuff up, misquoted people, but not always using words, rather by presenting the wrong context, leaning it a direction, it was not intended to go. Their broadcast contained all of the genius of adolescent ridicule. Ad hominem attacks and red herrings are bantered about, on a regular basis. “News, the judge stated, is just a word in the name of their television show” I am inspired that a young person is making this presentation. This is a bright mind, and a wonderful addition to journalists,trying to explain the media, in relationship to journalism,…. The inevitable conclusion, from the perspective of the journalist is a limited choice, and academically, the best choice is propaganda. The laws of journalism, exist within the sanctity, inherent to the title, and profession itself .To be a Journalist, is to adhere to ethical guidelines, and standards of practice.
It’s good that this kid is talking in front of people, but he hardly seems old enough to be doing much other than just repeating what he’s heard from his parents, or teachers. Better than nothing, but for stuff like this, we really need to hear from older people; not because they are smarter, but because they have deeper experience over time, and have had time to hear and see more, and have experienced the changes more than others. For example, it could be argued that the real problem is the consolidation of points of view to the corporation and elites. 6 huge corporations own all the media now, and it is not that they just own the media, but they make it so that it is impossible for other voices to be able to afford to speak, or be heard. Back 40 years ago in the 1980’s and before there were amazing political shows, talk shows, news shows, self-help shows, etc. That is all gone, and what there is that pretends to be that is just a vague echo of the reality gone before.
You make us think. Thanks. Yet, you fail to mention something that’s extremely important: American comedians are presenting ‘the news’ because they, along with many others, do not trust mainstream media, ie, CNN, MSNBC, Foxx News, the networks, etc. And that’s a good thing, as these mainstream Media stopped a long time ago to give a balanced, unbiased take on events, politics, etc. As long as there’s a void of dependable journalism in mainstream media, you’ll find news programs that take their job seriously coming out wherever it can.
Nate, bravo for your well-crafted talk and your engaging presence. You were informative and funny, and well-researched. I’ve thought about media manipulation quite a bit, and you created a sound case for why I should keep doing that. Thanks, especially, for the tips at the end. You obviously already know that leaving an audience to ponder a question makes you memorable, and you are. Well done!
Manipulation can be a group effort…it only takes one person to have hate against one person then forms a gang stalking group to see that person differently…each person will be held accountable before God….only God can judge…don’t ask God why ur going through so much turmoil drama dilemmas tragedies bc Karma doesn’t forget a name or a face
A conservative friend of mine was falling down the conspiracy rabbit hole in 2020-2021. COVID, election stolen, etc. Then he came upon flat earth and it was interesting what happened when we had conversations about that. He actually recognized the absurdity of flat earth and began researching and learning to debunk flat earthers. After learning about researching, logical fallacies, and basic critically thinking to debunk flat earthers, he began to apply those tools to his other beliefs. One by one those conspiracies fell apart for him.
My father. He became convinced the covid tests had nanobots on them that would enter his brain. He started making comments about election interference as well as some anti-semitic rhetoric. He became angry. We have no relationship anymore and its been a massive source of depression for me. Especially this holiday season.
The part where you discuss the demand to make statements about political issues when you aren’t a political figure hit hard for me, because I have first hand experience of how that isn’t only about celebrities! When the BLM protests began in 2020 (which was also a time when all of us had been on lockdown for a few months), I was frequently on the Slack for a nerdy fandom convention – a convention which, of course, we had no idea when we might be back at in person at that time. I mainly used it for the Animal Crossing website in order to schedule gaming time with others, but a friend alerted me that in the General website people were calling out everyone on the Slack that didn’t make a statement about Black Lives Matter. None of these people were celebrities or influencers, and the demand wasn’t “you should make a public statement” but rather just make a statement there on that private Slack. But in spite of the fact that the demand was in private, some people were called out publicly on Twitter for this. It was nuts. And it was frustrating that there were actual things that could have been done – like saying “oh hey here’s what I’m doing for BLM in my town, here’s how you can help” but all the energy went into demanding statements that were ultimately completely meaningless.
I have an older brother I had to cut ties with during the pandemic because he got real deep into conspiracy theories. I used to roam around forums and youtube websites that escalated the spreading of the same theories (replacement theory, pizza gate, and such) so that last interaction with him violently snapped me out of it. I have never tried contacting him since, he has always had a violent streak about him and he is known to get into altercations over mere disagreements, for example he initiated a fist fight with my little brother over an argument about Donald Trump, so the thought of being in the same room with him honestly terrifies me. He has never been one for self-reflection, so I think he is a lost cause, especially since he moved to Alberta to be near his partner’s conservative family.
Our brain rewards us when we find a pattern that explains some aspect of reality. That is the engine that encourages us to understand. This is valid for normal learning and for the development of a conspiratorial interpretation. It is the same mechanism. The way to resolve this human weakness is to train people (from childhood) with the ability to discern probable hypotheses from improbable ones by using critical thinking. By contrasting each hypothesis against reality, using basic logic.
Losing a couple of close friends to things like Qanon really hurt. But when i looked at it rationally, i realized that these people were people that hadn’t always been easy to get along with our entire friendship. Things that involved character deficits like just not being completely trustworthy. Or showing really bad judgement in their lives. These people were childhood or decades long friends, which i why i kept them in my life too long. Other people who went whack were closer than just acquaintances but not quite close friends, were people i had already decided to keep a distance from just from red flags I’d noticed over time. My point is that i bet most people who fall for this stuff already had things that those close to them, if they are honest, had to put up with. Nobody i know who is basically a nice person who is trustworthy, has good boundaries and shows empathy has gone conspiracy.
It’s interesting that the Pandemic was what created divides in families/friends. For my family, it happened much earlier than that when a close cousin became super Fundamentalist religious. It basically made it so we didn’t want to spend holidays with them anymore. We used to all go to church together (Catholic) and then meet at home and snack and party. But after “they found Jesus”, going to church somehow wasn’t enough, it wasn’t the right kind of prayer. They needed extra prayers and bible readings instead of eating appetizers. Now we have to hear about how god is intervening in every story well tell, when I’m just talking about how I made the ham. Santa is not OK and being excited about getting gifts is being too selfish. And the whole discussion about their kids not being vaccinated happened way before Covid.
This is actually really helpful because what Naomi said about how loved ones with questions are gonna be looking for answers, and people with preexisting relationships with them are the best chance at getting them back out of the conspiracies? That’s what happened with my mom. She was stuck at home with nothing to do and no income because she’s a self employed stylist, and the few clients she was allowed to bring in during covid were starting to get in her ears about how the vaccines were actually bad. She talked with me and my sister about it, and she had questions. We were talking with her, answering questions and asking her questions too, and it helped her to logic through the conspiracy, so she didn’t get very far into it before deciding she actually didn’t think that was right. It was just really helpful to ask her questions and to talk with her, and then once things started opening back up, she did the same with her clients – talked with them about their conspiracies and told them she didn’t think they were right and asked them questions and I think she helped them come back a little as well.
The people I used to “disagree with politically” still think we just “disagree”… when the things they drone on about are literally not happening. Sorry no, we don’t “disagree”, you live in a fantasy world of emotionally triggering buzzwords and conspiracy theories. It’s sad how pathetic the people I used to respect have become. Or at least, finally shown themselves to have always been.
This is possibly the 10th interview from Naomi’s book tour I’ve watched and I’m pretty sure I would watch at least 10 more. She has hit on something about our society that I’m not sure anyone else is talking about. She is always so insightful but I think Doppelganger is the best nonfiction work I’ve read in years
I researched this years ago (through researching fringe beliefs generally via psychology). My conclusion put most of it down to technology. Years ago we didn’t have the capability for fringe communities, spread around the (not flat) globe, to easily communicate and (very importantly) to try to attract new followers. They’d have met in back rooms and been walking around with sandwich boards or on Speaker’s Corner and most people would give them a wide berth. Now they have a tool that does everything easier, where they can formulate it all together more convincingly to the layman than an in-person demonstration would bring, so it expands and expands, and starts to seep into everyday rhetoric. The other thing I noticed (in early internet days) is that most of these fringe belief communities were more separate than they are now. They’ve spent so long on the same message boards that they’ve all started absorbing from each other, so you get these mega conspiracies which borrow bits from everywhere. You’d think they’d all start fighting with each other over their own conspiracies but, instead, they seem to subconsciously feel some kinship on some level and absorb instead. And they go deeper and deeper by interacting with each other. I used to find most conspiracies far less dangerous than they are now. It used to be more cryptozoology and funny things, in the main. But those whose aim is to shift the Overton Window seem to taken over so now it’s very often a far right thing. The most distressing one to me are the ‘targeted individuals’.
In my late teens and early twenties I would have considered myself a conspiracy theorist. But as I got out into the world and got jobs in public service and in healthcare, I realized that the number of competent people needed to pull these things would rival large armies. Consequently they would also have the ecological and economic footprint of said Army. Hardly something one can keep hidden in the shadows forever. I figure at best, people are promoted to their level of incompetence, and we have something like mid-level Metropolitan bureaucracy.
On people and their doppelgangers, I ran into this one guy and asked if anyone had compared him to Bret Weinstein. Same goatee and goofy mushroom haircut. He’d never heard of him before, but his friends looked him up on their phones and started cracking up. Then they started reading about him. The dude looked broken. The next time I saw him, he had a new haircut.
I think some people, because of their pride, lack the ability to accept they made a mistake, or they believed something wrong…Appearing to others as right or wrong is more important for them than actually being right or wrong. Some evil people use this to manipulate (using false associations) them into believing more and more wrong things (for self gratification).. and because they don’t accept their mistake, their rejection response is to convince more people in the same way…. It’s all about preserving the ego when your wrong, by rejecting reality and convincing others… At the core, there must be a bad way of selecting beliefs : choosing the opinion by following and believing others, instead of just looking at reality and coherence. They view the world of knowledge as a network of trust and popularity (for them knowledge is judged by popularity) instead of ideas being confronted to reality.. so instead of being wrong, internet allow them to create networks of self reassuring believers..
“You’ve probably had this happen to someone around you…someone who seemed sane…suddenly lost their mind and went down a rabbit hole…” Nope… Everyone around me that “seemed sane” and then “suddenly went down a rabbit hole”, I’ve always been like “that person is more interested in their own self interests than the observable world. If given half the opportunity, they would rather believe what they want to believe than the observable truth right in front of them.”
Adam, what you said about learning the lesson about not telling another person that they look like someone else hit home to me. Not for that scenario, but with naming children after another person. I was named after my father and I always hated it. I was given a nickname at a very early age, so all my relatives use that nickname when referring to me and even have made fun of me for having that nickname. There have been times when my father would use my identity to create debts he accumulated that had fallen to me because we have the same name. When a child is named after someone, they are pressured into trying to live up to that name given to them and robbed of the opportunity to develop their own identity. I think we should make it a practice to allow children to change their names legally at a certain age when they are old enough to decide for themselves how they would like to be identified in the world and not feel like they are stuck with what their parents decided for them before they had a choice in the matter. I know that we can already do this, but children are not generally told that they legally can change their name if they choose to because parents are proud of the name they have chosen for their children. I know this might seem like a controversial or minor issue for many people, but I feel it is an important one that should be discussed more. I don’t support conspiracy theories myself, but I used to know a couple who were into a lot of them and were also highly devout Christians and Trump supporters.
My 2 cents after a lifetime of working with people all over the world: I think that it is easy to see (or even hope) that their is some great conspiracy to explain what a mess humanity is overall. Our species has so many contradictions that it is nearly impossible not to lean into the belief that someone is working for a secret agenda that undermines our progress. And in point of fact, there is a kernel of truth in many of the “theories” that helps give them credibility. For instance, it is easy to spread rumors like the Covid anti-vac movement because drug companies don’t have the interest of consumers at heart. They would rush a drug to market to make money, even if there were unnecessary risks. Politicians are more likely to be working for companies/lobbyists who fund them than the people who they are supposed to represent. Religious leaders are often just money-seeking grifters. etc, etc, etc. With all this deception and confusion, I think our minds scramble for some sort of rationalization to make sense of the chaos.
I remember noticing some pretty conspiratorial stuff when reviewing Naomi Wolf’s maternity/childbirth book in the early 2000’s -obviously she’s been priming for this for decades. I recall a lot of vaccine conspiracies floating around the natural birth community at the time- she was likely influenced by that.
One of the weird things I experience with online identity is a divorcing of it from the person it belongs to, but treating both as people. I have a friend we’ll call Joe, who goes by Grape online. In my brain, Joe and Grape are Different People. Both are my friends, both are people, but there is some part of me that isn’t processing them as connected.
I wish I could say I have come to a place where I can empathize with old friends and acquaintances who fell into conspiracies during covid, but I cannot. I still fight for the truth and cannot put up with the flow of BS that flows from their broken brains. I hope to be better, but we live in dangerous times and it feels more important to fight the BS than to coddle the crazy.
I very much think it depends on what you are returning to in the office. My coworkers were fine, but they were not people that I would chose to hang out with for 70% of my life. I saw them more than my own family. I think that was kind of the back lash there. You had a culture you didn’t like be forced on you by A type managers. The culture of offices has to change. People are looking for a slower life again and getting tired of the hassle that gets you nowhere. People are tired of being understaffed. We get told stress is bad as it’s forced apon us. Flexibility is the answer. No more nanny state corporate deadline or we all die mentality. Letting people work from a beach or coffee shop. People also learning how to find their own connections again instead of the default whatever your job is. 3rd spaces. Places to hang out and meet new people.
WOW. THANK YOU! You have given me a gift I will give my daughter! I have discovered there is a more articulate ME in this world! Again thank you! Her comments about “organizing” in the REAL world is bang on! This is where social media can actually help connect real people in the real world but we have to teach people how to do it!
At 36:34 Our responsibility is not to post on social media, it’s to participate in politics by voting, going to meetings, writing to representatives, commenting on the EIS being issued by a government agency, etc.etc. Or of course, writing books that actually make a coherent argument. Posting on social media is just easier. I love all of Naomi Klein’s books, but listening to you talk I realize you experience the social universe completely differently than those of us who just have jobs and don’t spend much time on social media.
Yeah I hate to say for the longest time decades ago I thought your guest had written the Beauty Myth. However Naomi Klein, rest assured that there is no confusion especially as how that other Naomi turned out lol😂 Consumed the shock doctrine and I still have This Changes Everything as a book to read on my bookshelf. Please write more after you’re done with her.
whenever I get told someone looks like me, the only things we have in common will be the traits i dislike about myself, never the traits i like. I generally like my nose, my eyes, my smile… but i’m also bald and a bit overweight… do my doppelgangers ever have a similar nose or smile? nope, it’s just a fat bald white guy with a beard, WHO LOOKS EXACTLY LIKE ME, according to an acquaintance that is SO excited to tell me this. My ex husband had a somewhat large nose (which i loved, i think it looked great on him), but whenever a friend would say someone looks JUST like him, it’d always be a guy with an even larger nose, almost like a caricature of his nose, and not much else similar (maybe being about the same height/weight), so that always made him extra sensitive about his nose (which again, perfectly suited his face, but was statistically slightly larger than average)
Disaster Capitalism was the first historical analysis I’ve read that not merely made sense of the previous half century, but helped me understand events as they happened. You really did dramatically reduce comprehension lag time. Thank you very much. One issue for me is that there really have been numerous conspiracies that turned out to be true, and many likely remain to be uncovered.
As an identical twin and a very average person who people often ask me where they have met me before (despite having never met or related to whoever they have in mind). I find it interesting other people get upset when compared to others. I do think it can be hard to not have your own identity, but I suppose I’m just used to it.
First of all I would Thank You Both for this article. I tried social media once and because I am a tech dinosaur, I grew up playing stick ball. article games were not invented yet. Our version of social media was attending a Block Party. This is where people from my neighborhood had fun and talked about what was happening in the neighborhood. But as soon as I signed up for social media I was being scammed. But the thing is I like to talk face to face or on a telephone. To often things get taken out of context, but hey if that’s what they enjoy sitting at a table just texting each other, I’m thinking to myself, who would go out to eat and not talk ??? 🧐
I am so deeply appreciative about Naomi Klein in so many things that she has spoken or written about. I do have a question about the “don’t need to post or speak out about it” part. (If) our media and governments are ignoring and/ or refusing to speak out, take action, end a genocide, do we, as humans and citizens, not have a role in holding those forces to accountability, to staying w the issue until it is big enough that they are acting deliberately to end genocide and oppression?
I had a doppelganger during my high school days. I kept getting tagged as having been absent or tardy, even though classmates and teachers vouched that I was neither. This went on for months before I finally demanded that the school administration find out who I kept getting mixed up with. My case went further than Naomi Klein’s. My doppelganger turned out to have the same name I did – first and last names. If not for my doppelganger having a different middle name, this might have kept up for much longer. Thankfully, the mix-up was rectified, but it was extremely irritating having to go through that. This all happened in the days of MySpace, so I cannot say if not having social media helped or harmed my case. However, given that it never went past high school, I lean towards the former. Still, it made it quite clear that I – and really, EVERYBODY – should always double-check to see if anything associated with or credited to someone is actually the case, and that has only gotten even more important since the rise of social media.
I like much of this but I need to push back about people getting back in the office and everyone needing to be face to face. For some I’m sure that’s true and I’m not here to deny that. I just want us to not erase the experiences of people who are, for one, perfectly OK with their jobs but prefer working from home to having to go to an office.
My ex husband, a highly intelligent and accomplished person, has always liked to feel that he’s the smartest person in the room, and fringe theories fed that need to know “more” than the rest of us. It started with listening to local talk radio in the 1990s, which led him to Rush Limbaugh, which led him to Alex Jones, which led him deep into YouTube.
I’m really interested in the process that takes otherwise sane, intelligent, good-hearted people and pulls them into loony-tunes conspiracy theories. One example I have in mind is a relative now in his 80s. I can swear that the entry point was a Bill O’Reilly book back in the 70s or 80s about the Kennedy assassination.
As a fan of Naomi Klein, who even saw her speak in person, I must admit after losing track I had and OH SHIT moment mistaking her for her doppelganger, who admittedly I knew nothing about. Immediately I looked up and corrected myself. Great talk and I love the emphasis on organizing praxis 🙌 stay rad
The story of Naomi Wolf makes me think of Turchin’s discussion of over-supply of elites leading to counter-elites. Wolf really seems to have lost here “real” elite status and flipped to counter-elite joining others of this like. Leaders of Capitol storming. Also there’s an academic that has coined a philosophy of profilicity. Hans-Georg Moeller makes an argument that it a real thing, having an online persona.
I think she nails it with the comment – “they get the facts wrong but the feelings correct.” I don’t think conspiracy folks believe all the garbage is true in their mind but, rather, they believe it’s true in their feelings. The question is – how do you deprogram these folks? If only it were as simple as reciting some sort of narrative cues like they used in the movie to deprogram the Barbies but in this case you have to appeal to their emotional selves which is even more tricky.
I wish I could give this more than one thumbs up like. I find Naomi Klein is so interesting and charming (and I love her decorating style – exactly what I’d choose) – I’m waiting for the transcript so I can get ChatGPT to summarize it (specifying “in detail”) and send the best parts to friends. My family/friends miss a lot by being too lazy to watch a 1-hr article even if the people are as fascinating as Adam and Naomi.
In explaining why some people go down rabbit holes of conspiracy, Naomi says humans are creatures of narative. Yes! But I would add that humans are especially creative creatures that invent. Couple this inventiveness with the complex and multi-leveraged mind of individuals grappeling with the modern social medial communications environment…this can go a good way to explaining the conspiracy epidemic.
Me, before perusal the article: will they mention at any point that the most logical reason why smart people keep believing things that get called conspiracy theories is the decades-long track record of things that get called conspiracy theories turning out to be absolutely true after all? (cf. Hillary Clinton’s dismissal of the idea that her husband was having an affair with a White House intern as a “vast right-wing conspiracy,” the idea that the NSA spies on American citizens’ Internet communications being dismissed as pure tinfoil-hat territory before Ed Snowden blew the lid off the whole thing, dozens of intelligence professionals dismissing the Hunter Biden laptop story as having “all the hallmarks of Russian disinformation,” the COVID lab-leak theory, and so on. If you’ve been paying attention, you can name plenty of examples of your own.) After perusal the article: …nope. Not mentioned once. Adam just made a fool of himself once again.
Whoa — Adam really hit the nail on the head at that 8:05 point! I have never heard anybody actually delineating what I’ve known in my head forever: Making a comparison between people like that (even a supposedly flattering comparison) is an instant ego-shattering resentment builder! (And keeping on the comedy angle, the legendary “godfather of standup” Shelley Berman once told me that a woman had come up to him earlier that day and said “Oh my God! Shelley Berman, you’re so wonderful! I absolutely love ‘Hello Muddah, Hello Fadduh!'” (a song that’s actually by comic singer Allan Sherman). Knowing Shelley’s volatile temperament, I am so sure he wanted to punch the lady right in the face!)
You don’t have to be a smart person to wonder why gyms, parks, small stores, restaurants and schools were shut, you had to social distance at the supermarket yet for a brief moment, you could go out there and protest together in close proximity to each other, marching together in the GF protests…..Are you saying, one’s eyes and ears and mind had to be disbelieved because the gvt told u to believe the other thing, and made it all official and proper cos news anchors are saying it and a short, bespectacled man on a podium in front of tv cameras told u so? Gerrara here. The nerve of the woman to keep a straight face as she denigrated those who resisted the gvt mandated novel experimental jabs into their sovereign bodies.
What I hate is how I am derided as a conspiracy theorist whenever I express skepticism regarding some commonly-held positions. I’m not advancing an actual theory; I’m just questioning the accepted one. That I haven’t been persuaded by the story I’m being told (usually because its foundation lacks philosophical rigour) does not mean I have been persuaded by a different one.
Leftist conspiracies are open jokes, understood to be conspiratorial, or end up declassified by the CIA in 20 years. Right wing conspiracies find a legitimate problem and then go batshit hogwild with the reasons how it became a problem in whstever ways confirm their beliefs. Broadly speeking, leftists are reactive to their lived experiences, right wingers are reactive to things that threaten to change their lived experiences.
One close family member went down the covid vaccine rabbit hole, and it was made worse that they tended to double down when challenged, and works in a research field. I’ve known quite a few academics who, despite not having medical science expertise, still think that their expertise in a different field makes them smart enough to warrant vaccine skepticism. It’s sad since all it really is, is fear and finding justifications for that fear. No matter how many degrees you have, you’re still human and suffer from human fears. As was mentioned, the feelings are legitimate, even if the reasons aren’t, but it’s hard to find a path to that.
There are engineers that can design a skyscraper, but can’t properly use construction tools. Just because you excel in one area does not mean you excel in all areas. Sometimes the thing that makes you successful in one area makes you bad in other areas. A DIY hardworking guy who isn’t afraid of making mistakes and jumps into problems headfirst may make a good farmer, but may not know if a con artist is scamming them. A shrewd investor may know if a con artist is scamming them, but not know the first thing about maintaining their house or car. Sometimes people just lie – they say that they believe in a conspiracy, but it’s really just a way to justify the amount of hatred they spew out of their mouths about the side they disagree with. Sometimes a person doesn’t want to reveal their true beliefs because it sounds bigoted so they make up a conspiracy about the opposing side and makes that the reason why they hate them. Sometimes people just grift for money – right now you can make a lot more money with a lot less work shilling for the republican side.
My neighbor became racist. It’s gross. He believes that all the articles of non whites at the insurrection were deleted. He says in front of his 12 year old daughter that it’s being racist for me to say well why were they all middle aged white males? How is that racist when it’s so clearly a demographic that they all identify with. So strange. But if I was truly white then what would he say? Not fair. I’m white enough dammit! He’s very empathetic to the indigenous community for genocide. But not black people says they need to get jobs but he’s on disability at 50. I told him their struggles are very similar. The genetics affecting generations. He didn’t even know about epigenetics. 😩 I Sent him some good published articles but idk if it helped.
When we attack conspiracy theories as delusional we forget there are real conspiracies. The issue is the mechanisms of the conspiracies, are they based on magical thinking versus real evidence based psychologically, sociologically and scientifically logical. It’s interrsting that a lot people don’t talk about the pre-existing psychology that of distrust of authority which can easily lead to persecution/victim feelings mix with high enough intelligence to see patterns around them. The emotional leads the rational, essentially the rational is used to justify and understand the feeling perceptions.
People have known this for a while. I mean, what do you think the Fixx song “Are we Ourselves?” was about? I’m not saying a schlocky pop song from that, what, late 80’s? … is on par with the thinking of a Naomi Klein (thank you so much for disambiguating that, btw; I was starting to get confused too: “I loved _Disaster Capitalism_, but what’s with all this anti-vaxxer nonsense??”). But… it’s not an entirely new idea, that we are selling the “brand” of ourselves. Social media just makes that… explicit. I was just thinking about this and I was thinking of an ex-boss (he fired me; I am now wondering if I deserved it?) saying to me that my ideas were great, but I needed to get better at selling “brand Tom.” I wonder, now, whether he was actually — what I thought at the time — telling me to be inauthentic… to lie… or if, in fact, he was just offering some hard-nosed, sad-but-true life advice. You can’t just have a great idea anymore; you have to get people to *follow you*. You need a “brand.”
I happen to be reading Doppelganger right now. I am a native of SF, Ca. I went to high school with Ms. Wolf. My brain pops with every page of your book. I was already your fan, but now I am obsessed with you. I just happened to see this article. You are wicked smart and still on this side of the mirror, lucky for us. Please continue your spot on analysis of this weird world.
The “you look like” thing really f*cked with me, because once someone said I reminded them of Lena Dunham (who I am not fond of). Then someone else told me I remind them of Sarah Silverman (who I am fond of) and yet those two are so far apart in my head that I was like, “I don’t eve F*cking know…” I also used to get mistaken for my best friend ALL OF THE TIME, but she was a Bleach Blonde and I was a Dark Brunette….so I think people just see what they want to see.
15:20 honestly, I’m a little young, but this is probably the same thing the media did about Sªddám Hūssein. The 24-hr news cycle meant there was constant pressure to explain everything. The intelligence community and several reporters even at mainstream outlets were skeptical of the existing evidence, but the paranoid, bellicose, and insecure Bush-Cheney administration had the first story. They told a story full of obfuscation and ignorance, and bewitched the public. The slow rollout of investigation didn’t have time to tell the public the truth before the country had already been swept away
I really need to read her book, but based off of this interview I’m pretty sure it falls very short of why smart people, or people in general, follow conspiracies. What she touched on was primarily why sociopaths choose to center around conspiracies. I’m not saying she’s wrong, her ideas of branding is spot on. For example, when Alex Jones was finally put into the hot seat in regards to the stance he took on the school shootings being faked, he stood for nothing because he’s a grifter. But also she was spot on in that it was easy for him to weave those conspiracies about the families being actors because they were in an easy to dismiss inhuman interaction. They were nobody, until they were somebody sitting in front of him. And this was all for the sake of the grift. But that doesn’t say exactly why a broader group of people in general follow this path.
One thing is for sure : mocking and insulting people does not work. Ordinary people who fall into conspiracy theories have understandable fears that are actually rooted in Human history, as we have a long history of being lied to by media who sometimes do not fact check governmental statements, war propaganda, nationalist narratives of us against them, etc. Some people can be utterly shocked or traumatized when they realize what they were told might be an illusion and they lose their balance so to speak and stop believing almost all official discourse and cling to the far-fetched fearmongering spread by other people who are not in power or not expert. Their fears are often founded, even if their grasp of concrete reality is off and they skip over all nuances and complexities/contradictions. Of course, if one studies conspiracy theories you can see patterns where they overly simplify reality into one dark fearsome accusation. In a sense, this article is part of our collective therapy. 😛
No, Naomi. Don’t trust the AI; keep writing! An AI will always make worse books than you. The models will never exceed the quality of the stuff put into it. An AI with the same number of samples will degrade over time. If you want to bulldoze writers’ block by chatting with it, that’s the most it’s ever going to help you with writing, and I look forward to a lot of people finding this out the hard way.
The fact that I always thought Adam Conover looked like a ex of mine who went bonkers and tried to murder me, and didnt realise how deeply violating that was. I am so happy for that perspective shift away from comparing people in such a superficial way. It really is violating and quite possibly offensive to their self image. I mean, also, if I perhaps kept that in the forefront of my mind, that’s violating to my person as well! I had another ex who thought I looked like another redheaded girl who had broken his heart. He never got over it and it totally went nowhere, and I always thought that was super unfair and lame. So, I’ve rejected this superficial comparing nature before, but now I have a stronger reason for it and I’ll be much much more aware of it. first 10 minutes, I already learned something nuanced
My theory is that conspiracy theorists secretly do not want to be right. Let’s say any one conspiracy theory is correct, then what happens? That one thing that made them feel special is gone, and is just another schmuck is the sea of humanity. Maybe thats why they choose the most bonkers conspiracy theory knowing that will never pan out.
I’m not a conspiracy theorist I’m a critical thinker I look at the science physics and engineering aspects and being a machinest welder and machine programmer with almost 35 yrs experience I understand how things work especially all kinds of metals since I can weld them all and can do all 3 types of welding most of all I have commons sense I can disprove the major conspiracy theories Kennedy 9/11 aids COVID aids I had figured out when MTV announced it back in the early 80s I was 9 or 10 And conspiracy theorist was derived from knowledge is power and the CIA and FBI called the people who asked questions cause like me they are buying what they are trying to sell And so people understand what conspiracy is defined as Black laws dictionary When 2 or more people make an agreement to break the law and carry out that agreement When more than 2 cops show up on a call or traffic stop when they are back where you can’t hear they are conspiring to violate your unalienable rights
Our identities have always been like conplex numbers, composed of real and imaginary parts, both orthagonal to one another. Now, we have fragmented, or worse, fractured identities. I feel for younger people who have to maintain so many personas. Seems it must be exhausting. Or maybe theyre exhilerated by it. I started to think this could be problematic when i first became very active on a car club forum, online, in 2004. I fecided at that time that I would always post comment or content under my real name (except for spacing). I think its healthier for me to consolidate personas.
I find this so fascinating. I’ve been told countless times I remind them….insert name. I’ve never neen insulted by it, just fond it wild how often it has happened. At some point though I decided to play around with it. Being the joker that I am, I started responding with “Oh, that’s my doppelganger, except I’m the evil one.” I really enjoy saying that 😂😈
So I hear the “give people something actually fight toward and a real plan of action” but the vast majority of people are too lazy to even think critically about what they’re hearing let alone to fact check the basis of arguments. If they’re that lazy, they don’t want a project, they want validation and a sense that they’re right and the people who make fun of them are wrong and maybe even bad/evil. I feel like a point made toward the beginning about the dive toward positive feedback and/or a sense of acceptance has to be a tool to leverage along with teh demonstration technique. Basically, a lot of people lost in the mirror world are there because they found community and acceptance and a sense that they’re not alone. If they could find that same thing in the real world and have that same sense of acceptance and community without the severed relationships that they feel just as keenly as anyone, I think they would more willingly take steps to walk away from their situation that they may have internally recognized is wrong but don’t know how to walk away from their identity they built without shame. And I think that’s such a big part of what created this problem is the ignorance shaming that happened so rampantly online especially, and now people can feel trapped by a shame barrier in this cognitive dissidence that they feel trapped in. If we tear down the shame barrier, that can be a big part of the bridge making.
Adam, you really need to work on your interview skills. Forget the constant grunting every time Naomi made an interesting point, maybe plan for the interview a little better. If you are going to interview someone and discuss the theme of a book they wrote, maybe read the book! “I read the introduction and the first chapter”, seriously? How do you discuss the content, if you don’t know what it is? This was still a really interesting article but could have been a lot better.
I have been conservative/libertarian for over 40 years. But I am trained in Engineering. Most of my family were die hard socialists. My socialist family members always were into conspiracies ie;Bush & free masons etc. JFK assassination, chemtrails 911 as an inside job. Now the Right is swallowed up in this. I had to leave the conservative movement, we used to mock these people as left wing nuts.
Probably because we’ve been lied to our whole lives? There’s a man in the sky called god? Columbus ‘discovered’ America? Iraq has weapons of mass destruction? JFK was killed by a lone gunman (even though HSCA ruled it a conspiracy in ‘76)? It doesn’t matter that our Secretary of Defense used to be on the board of Raytheon? Jeffrey Epstein killed himself? The US invaded and overthrew governments in Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Burma, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Guatemala… and dozens of others…
This is still scattered thinking. Con over doesn’t know. This Klein doesn’t know. Crappy conspiracy dies because truth doesn’t.. Conspiracy ( or untested hypothesis ) is wonderful. Today’s conspiracy is often starting to pan out as tomorrow’s truth, NOT BY REPETITION, but but by revelation of other facts. .