In this “Mormon Land” podcast, scholar Matthew Bowman discusses conspiracy theories like QAnon and the “big lie” about the 2020 election, as well as why so many Latter-day Saints buy into false beliefs. The church’s role in defeating the Equal Rights Amendment has been documented by historians, with Mormons illegally using church pulpits, buildings, and other religious property.
Mormonism is practiced by millions worldwide, but many who are unfamiliar with it sometimes rely on vague stereotypes and pop culture references to define it. In May, a Public Religion Research Institute survey found that nearly one in five members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believes in QAnon. David Robertson argues that conspiracy theories and Christianity are evidentially equivalent, as there is nothing inherently more irrational from a philosophical point of view.
Some features of Mormon communities are especially good at making us susceptible to conspiracy thinking. The Mormon Conspiracy is a scholarly and lengthy critical review of the church’s controversial history and a well-laid out theory about the political implications of conspiracy theories.
Religious beliefs are more often situational than propositional, and reading reported conspiracy beliefs deepens our understanding of them. The Mormon church is an independent cartel among a greater organized criminal conspiracy we call religion, with examples such as the Watergate theory and the “false flag” theory of the Mountain Meadows massacre of 1857.
📹 Joe Rogan – Is Mormonism a Cult?
Joe Rogan and Michael Shermer discuss Mormon’s and polygamy.
📹 Exposing the Mormon Church! True crazy facts about the Church of Latter Day Saints
Mormon #exmormon #religion #mormonism #crazyfacts #funfacts #shorts #youtubeshorts #underthebannerofheaven.
I have been a Mormon my whole life. Most people locally are well meaning. My son left the church a few weeks ago after a horrific missionary experience with the Portland Oregon Mission president. He told me he wanted to leave but when I tried to bring my child home the mission president refused to allow me to pick him up, refused to give me an address to have him picked up and refused to provide me with a means to bring him home until I called the police. Mission President instructed the other missionaries in the home to not allow my child to leave which is technically a hostage situation and a crime. I complained through proper church websites but church leadership swept my concerns under the rug. I never thought of my religion as a cult until this incident with higher ranking church authorities.
My favorite cult would have to be the Amish. Here’s a group of people who had some crazy beliefs, and so they went off and minded their own business. Perfect. (Okay, some people complain that their buggies damage public roads from time to time, but the way I see it, our cars are polluting the planet that they live on, so it’s kind of an even trade.)
I talked to a Mormon from Salt Lake City who was doing his MIssionary work in Northern Ontario Canada trying to convert the locals and natives.. They were really nice. We talked about the play book of Mormon. They liked it. I talked about South Park with them. They didnt seem to like SP very much lol. They gave me a bible and I couldnt throw it out. It just felt wrong. So it sits on top on my entertainment center with a Buddha lol
I’m a non Mormon but played hockey in Salt Lake when I was younger and spent a year there. The people were extremely nice and helpful. Yes they had large families and many beautiful Mormon girls wouldn’t marry outside their religion, tho I’d offer to convert they’d all say they didn’t want me to convert just for them. Still, an awesome helpful people. My truck broke down on freeway and in 5 minutes literally 20 passerby’s stopped to help me. Also a cop pulled me over once for weaving and recognized me and let me go asking if I could get him tickets. I remember it because I never did get him those tickets…20 years later.
I’m an active Mormon and have been my whole life. Honestly as a member i’m not looking to convert people wherever I go, honestly i’d rather just not talk religion most of the time anyway. I’m literally just trying to live my life the best I can. If you want to hang out, awesome, lets do it. Want to go to a bar? Awesome lets do it, I’ll be your driver. Need help with something? Cool I’ll try my best to be there. Some of the comments too talk about shunning other people that aren’t LDS (Mormon) I think some of it comes from us LDS people feeling uncomfortable when people are talking bad about the religion in front of them anytime someone comes up and I don’t think its probably a consious thing, just that people who talk bad about your morals and religion isn’t something that makes me want to hang out with that person. I’m all for jokes and stuff, but its exhausting always trying to defend beliefs all the time. My kids go and hang out with kids in our neighborhood who aren’t religious and we’re friendly with the parents too. We’re normal people trying to live normal lives too. I’ll let my kids believe what they want, and ask questions on what they want.
Dude, I’ve got more beef than most with the LDS church, but many of your “facts” are incorrect. Firstly, Joseph Smith was killed in Illinois, not Missouri. The affidavit in the introduction to the Book of Mormon is not about polygamy. The FLDS sect was led by Warren Jeffs. Colorado City is near the boarder of Utah and Arizona, not Colorado. And you say you’ve been there?
I am born Mormon and still go sometimes. I have to go cause of my father. Mormons are nice and I don’t think it’s bad, but it’s not right for me. Im starting to question and being Mormon doesn’t let me express who I truly am and it doesn’t make me happy. I will probably still go to the Mormon church until I am old enough to say “I’m leaving.” I just believe in God and the basics. I don’t want anything complicated
Just FYI, I have never, in 46 years of being immersed in LDS culture, heard anyone mention paying tithing on capital gains or profits of a home sale. I’m sure some LDS do this, but that’s the minority; the hardcore. It’s just never come up in thousands of LDS sermons or Sunday School lessons, and not doing this is certainly nothing Mormon leadership would ever call you out on.
Alright, here’s my fact-checking of Joe and the other guy: I love joe Rogans podcast, but when this needs serious correction: 1.) they are not careful enough on differentiating mainstream Mormonism from fundamental Mormonism. The former condemns the latter for their polygamy practice and is not similar to the latter much at all. 2.) guy on the right is absolutely false, the so to speak polygamy revelation is not in the Book of Mormon and the revelation that other witnesses signed to testify of was not the marriage revelation but the gold plates of the Book of Mormon. Nowhere in the same ballpark Joseph didn’t start the religion at 14, that was when he was very thoughtful about religion and claimed the beginning of his heavenly visions. The Book of Mormon came when he was 23, and many other parts of the religion gradually came for the 15 years after that. Guy on the right mischaracterizes Joseph’s “trouble with the law”. Look at every case and it was largely a matter of religious intolerance. The Mormons had an extermination order against them from the government of missouri, the federal government didn’t defend them while acknowledging this injustice, and the governor of Illinois knowingly permitted Joseph to be put in a jail with too few guards that could be overrun by a mob and end in his death, which is what happened, he was not murdered for justified reasons. I’m sorry but painting the federal government as the innocent and purely fair party and Joseph as some rough lawless scoundrel is very ignorant of the historical context.
I converted to the LDS Church a couple of years ago. It was one of the best choices I have ever made. Through the Church I met some of the most decent people ever. I dont drink any alcohol or smoke, have become very disciplined in everything. I have become more compassionate towards others. Thanks to God and the LDS Church. A perfect church!!!
Being a Mormon, it’s like when folks accuse rogan of being in on a conspiracy or being controlled and he knows the truth about his own position but the opinions of others will remain. It’s all good, but I don’t talk jiujitsu technique because I’d sound foolish to anybody with more experience or practice than myself, vice versa….
You may be surprised how much of the food pantries are actually filled by the Mormon or LDS church here in Utah or an Idaho or in California or Nevada. On top of teaching people to farm arranging for running water and small villages Distributing clothes to third world countries and two natural disaster areas and a number of actual relief efforts such as those that Community also teaches literacy to the poor trades to people who normally wouldn’t have a future otherwise and creates educational opportunities, helps people in everything from addiction recovery to abuse recovery to people who want to go through their program for genital identity issues. They hit help women who are in trouble with pregnancies another issues worldwide and their youth is constantly involved in service activities with their leadership. They’ve helped build auditing programs and systems for organizations to make sure that they are not wasting money or having recourse stolen from them.
When we moved to Utah in the 90s. We were welcomed by half the neighborhood, once they found out that we weren’t Mormon and we didn’t go to church. None of the kids were allowed to play with us and basically we were ignored from there on out. They like to keep to their own. Oh and trust me they’ll act like you don’t exist.
I don’t know if I’d say NO religious institutions should get tax exceptions; the Catholic Church is the largest private provider of education and runs the most soup kitchens (privately) in the US. Many Protestant, Muslim, Hindu, and Buddhist groups do valuable secular outreach in their communities as well. Call me crazy but I don’t want one, central, politicized entity controlling all food and social service for the needy through the Federal government with taxes; they are the most inefficient group I’ve seen in my life time that is allowed to continue existing.
Yeah. It is. So was Christianity at one point. The definition is: “a relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister.”, and “a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.” Any religion seen as fringe is considered a cult.
That warm and friendly vibe Mormons have is an act. They’re very nice to outsiders to their face but a lot are two faced. They are so kind and nice with a great sense of community until you are one of them and start questioning your beliefs. They’ll slowly turn away from you and once you decide that the religion isn’t accurate they will shun you all together. Or at least that’s what happened to me and everyone I knew that used to be a member. But I’m sure it’s not everyone that will do that and most will say it doesn’t happen at all.
I was raised Mormon and was actually reading the Book of Mormon and had somewhat of a belief in the church all the way up until 8 months ago when I had a near death experience. You would think that would push me closer to god but it did the opposite I woke up from a coma and had to repent for all my sins to my bishop which were things like having sex, drinking beer and smoking weed. The reason it pushed me away is because everyone was saying things like ” we’re asking everyone in the ward to pray for you”and “we’re fasting for you” they believed that through fasting and prayer my life was saved and I was like uhh no the doctors and surgeons saved my life my family is still super Mormon so no hate to Mormons they’re really nice people I just am not that gullible to believe in that comical religion
6:22 Tax exemptions are given so Churches can do more good and benefit humanity. So if a church or religion or mega corporation is not putting the money they get that’s not taxed to good use THEN you can take the tax exemption out, you want more churches like that and less clubs. You want mega corporations making goods cheaper and hiring more employees. That’s why they’re tax exempt.
I live in Boise and in my neighborhood we have a hardcore fundamentalist Mormon family, you know the kind where the women wear homemade dresses that go down to the ankles and the men wear plain buttoned down shirts and off brand blue jeans that never quite fit right, the teenage son comes over to my house from time to time looking for work, every once in a while I’ll have him clear brush and give him a few bucks, one day while he was working I asked him if he wanted some water and started asking him about himself, he’s about 16, never been to school, doesn’t own a tv, supposedly a master furniture maker, and his last name is Jeffs. Right then my ears perked up and I said “oh yeah, like part of the Warren Jeffs family”? And he looked at me like how could this heathen possibly know Warren? Then I said “I watch the news” and he immediately clammed up and I couldn’t get anymore out of him. I don’t know where he falls in the family lineage (there’s 100’s of em) but I suspect that family managed to “break off” from the rest of the cult and are now living in a quiet neighborhood in Boise, he hasn’t been back since, kinda a weird kid
Cleanup Efforts Underway in Asia Following Typhoon Mangkhut The typhoon, known as Typhoon Ompong in the Philippines, packed destructive winds and torrential rain as it cut across northern Luzon. Dozens of people lost their lives after heavy rains triggered landslides. Ninety-six Latter-day Saint chapels in the affected areas of the Philippines sheltered more than 4,000 members and friends of the Church during the typhoon where they received food and water. LDS Charities, the humanitarian arm of the Church, is coordinating relief efforts alongside Church volunteers who are repacking suppplies and distributing 7,000 food kits in the affected Philippine provinces. In Hong Kong, members and more than 100 missionaries from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have been working to help clean debris in the community. High wind smashed windows in the city, tearing off parts of buildings and roofs, while the storm surge flooded hotels and restaurants. Eight meetinghouses received minor flooding along with landscape damage. The Hong Kong China Temple received minor landscape damage but has reopened. Miraculously no lives were lost though a few hundred were injured and some were displaced. . . mormonnewsroom.org/article/cleanup-efforts-underway-asia-following-typhoon-mangkhut
I’ve been a member for over 50+ years, and all of the doctrines and teachings have taught me to be s better husband, Father and priesthood holder. It’s help me teach my children how to be well adjusted contributing members of society. It’s helped me teach my kids to take care of the sacred gift God has given us in our bodies, by never taking things that will harm your body, such as drugs, alcohol or any addictive substances. It’s the very best choice that I’ve made in my life. It’s help me teach my kids and grandkids where we came from, why we’re here and where we’re going. It also help me teach my children that most people that have lived on the earth will receive salvation. It’s also help me teach my children that God’s plan includes more than individual salvation, but He’s also made available familial salvation, we refer to as Exaltation( the opportunity to be with those you love for all eternity). I can go on for a long time, but I say to one and all, come find out for yourself by reading the Book of Mormon. I read it 50+ times and have only found teachings that lead you to Christ, the giver of Salvation and Exaltation.
You mentioned that he was 14 when he started to translate the Book of Mormon, he was also extremely uneducated at the time, if he did make it up (because 14 year olds do lie) how would he have been able to write an entire book, in complex language even for his time without any grammatical errors? No 14 year old kid I know could make something like the Book of Mormon up especially not an uneducated one.
One difference between a religion and a cult is that religions tolerate and mostly ignore any critics and naysayers, and just move forward with those who have common beliefs. Cults, on the other hand, have very little tolerance for members who question or criticize the organization or its leaders, and will move to punish and penalize offenders in many ways, usually making it as public and painful as possible. Social pressure is a powerful tool, and one that cults depend upon heavily for their status and longevity.
Interesting conversation, but as an active Latter-day Saint it pains me how little they know about my religion and it’s founding and yet think they are authorities on the subject. His explanation of Joseph Smith’s polygamy and his justifications for it is pure conjecture. He also fails to distinguish between The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and other polygamist groups.
Instead of getting commentary on Mormonism from people who have no clue, why don’t you interview someone who can actually speak from a position of authority? I’ve heard you interview a few people who have made comments on Mormonism that are completely wrong. Having these guys comment on Mormonism is like asking Bill Burr to comment on astrophysics because he heard Neil DeGrasse Tyson speak one time.
I was raised partially Mormon. I’m not religious, but will always love that church. FOA, I lived in Utah for about 15yrs and never once saw polygamy. Also, the 10% pay thing, they really aren’t as stringent about those donations as ppl think. You just give what you can. They are all about family and community as well. There were times we were broke and the church gave us food and other necessities. And we weren’t donating. They’ll help with addiction probs and hints like that also. Idk about the early days, but what I do know is Brigham Young was a bad ass and fought his way into claiming Salt Lake City as theirs! They do do some weird stuff like baptism for the dead. But, they believe the person has the choice to accept it or not. It has a few judge mental types, but what doesn’t. If you’re looking, idk how much better you could get than this church honestly.
what would you do if the spirit convinced you to get baptized into the mormon church and then temp you to break the commandments to get you to repent, over and over and over again? having experienced both side of addiction and “recovery”, I honestly would rather prefer the vicious cycle of addiction compared to this cycle of being tempted to break covenants and repenting over and over and over again. Any advice?
Hey Joe. Mormons that you know that are Olympic Wrestlers and MMA Fighters include Mark Shultz, Cael Sanderson, Rulon Gardner, and also Mark Hunt- who used to have an LDS symbol on his fighting trunks,- but I do believe that Mark Hunt isn’t a practicing Mormon at this time in his life. Just some trivia.
No “most Evangelical Christians” do not “consider mormons as Christians.” The reason beping mormons do not believe that Christ bled and died on the cross to save mankind once and for all from his sins. Mormon scripture teaches “be ye perfect.” Being perfect is the only thing that will save a mormon and get them into what they believe to be the highest heaven, what they call the “celestial kingdom.” In order to be the perfect mormon one must never question church leaders or the tasks that church leaders are constantly assigning them. Tasks such as preforming good works for the church, paying 10% of their monthly income to the church and having a temple recommend, or in other words being mormon temple worthy. In order to be considered worthy a member must fulfill a long list of requirements such as keeping the word of wisdom, abstaining from caffeine and alcohol, serving a mormon mission, and having many children. These things as well as many more are how a mormon can obtain god hood. As gods they believe they will rule over their own planet, take many wives and have many children. Christians do not believe in nor do they desire to obtain god hood they believe in only one heaven which is ruled by one God, Christ Jesus alone and that there is only one way to get heaven and that is by believing and accepting Christ and what He did on the cross as their only salvation from sin and from death. Christians believe that because of Christ’s complete and finished work on the cross where He laid down His own life and bled and died for their sins that they are saved.
WRONG, Michael Shermer. The mormon cult was just caught red-handed hiding investments and capital gains from both the IRS and the Australian tax authorities in clear violation of the IRS Code and rules and regulations. Multiple whistleblowers came forward who were previously accountants for the mormon cult. Conversely, the rules in both countries require that the vast majority of donations be used to give back and to provide services and basic goods to the members and other outsiders. This is clearly not happening.
The affidavit in the Book of Mormon in the beginning is not about polygamy, it’s specifically about the “gold plates”. The document about polygamy was called section 132 (of the Doctrine & Covenants) and was presented to the Mormons in Utah nearly 25 years later by Brigham Young and was not written in Joseph Smiths hand writing nor was signed by him. There are several volumes written that present that it was Brigham Young was the actual creator of Polygamy and not Joseph Smith.
This isn’t the main Mormon church (The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints) being discussed at the beginning. Michael then brings up the founder of the main Church, Joseph Smith. Michael then claimed that Joseph Smith was having sexual relations outside of his original marriage with Emma Smith. So far there has been no DNA evidence linking Joseph Smith to any children outside of his marriage with Emma Smith. Ugo A Perego a geneticist has a website dedicated to finding evidence of “other” children. josephsmithdna.com/about-me.html Although many early members of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints practiced polygamy, It wasn’t for the mere reason of lust. I often hear Joe Rogan bring up the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints as a ‘cult’ example, But I often feel he misses the point of it’s positive teachings and doctrine contained within the book of Mormon. For example, Mosiah 2: 17 And behold, I tell you these things that ye may learn wisdom; that ye may learn that when ye are in the service of your fellow beings ye are only in the service of your God. Even if the Book of Mormon is true or false, It has undeniable positive teachings. I’d suggest anyone to read the book, Then make up their own mind.
Actually, (Channeling my inner Cliff Claven) Joe Smith didn’t start when he was 14. He was in his twenties, but he told people later that it all started when he was 14 but there is zero evidence this was true. His family, especially his mother, recorded a lot of what went on and they didn’t mention any of Joe’s revisionist history as fact. So he made that all up.
Thousands of individual lawsuits against the IRS is NOT the full story. As the story goes, Miscaviage was able to obtain compromising data on the IRS Commissioner (possibly kiddie porn on his computer or something like that), and Scientology used this information to blackmail the IRS Commissioner into giving Scientology the long-coveted tax exemption status, making Miscaviage a “god” in the eyes of the Scientology members. The entire story is both disgusting and disturbing.
They are still a cult. I used to be mormon and I found a lot of things that don’t match with the word of God. Good works does not give you salvation. Good works come later. It’s God’s way how to teach you to be a good person. That’s part of the process to clean you. Accepting Jesus Christ is the only way to the Father. Romans 3:20 20Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.
A friend of mine, C. T., doesn’t believe in the facts about Mormonism. Her dad was a bishop of their Mormon church, so when she was still living with her family in Utah, she was obligated to go to church and take part in the activities. Now, she lives in California, and does NOT attend any Mormon church. She is a very good hearted and intelligent person, and said that she is much happier living in California. More power to her.
I grew up in the LDS church. They put on a front of kindness and niceness, but they are not. They are some of the most judgmental, backstabbing people you will ever meet. They just can do it all with a smile on their face, so people think they are nice. They are racist, homophobic, misogynistic, and elitist. If you are not popping out kids like a pez dispenser with an “appropriate” mate by the age of 25, say goodbye to any future prospects in the church. Also due to the Mormon church owning so many businesses in Utah, not being in good favor with the church can destroy your career. There is an entire section of the church devoted to helping people hook up so they can pop out babies. Its called the singles ward, and it is full of some of the most scared and desperate people you will ever meet (they still are smiling the whole time though). I had a relative, who had some kind of genetic issue where her children kept being born with down syndrome, but she was pressured by the church and its members to be a good daughter of god, and be fruitful and multiply. So even though she was poor, even though her children were born sick and she could barely afford to feed herself, she kept having them. She dug herself into a deeper and deeper financial hole. Because if she did not, everyone in her congregation would turn on her. All while wearing a smile. That is the true nature of the Mormon church. Just because someone smiles at you, doesn’t make them your friend.
On the final point about the money going to mostly good causes, this is not the case, the recent SEC fines show and whistle blowing from within Ensign Peak show that the church hoards billions of dollars giving less than 1% of its over 150 billion nest egg to charitable causes. It’s a money making machine, but not in a good way
Let’s not confuse the fundamentalist Mormons with the mainstream Mormons centered in Salt Lake City. The Book under the banner of Heaven has a lot of far fetched accusations and claims that are definitely not accurate about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Yes in the early days of the church Joseph Smith received instructions from God to start the practice of plural marriage as it was in the Old Testament in Abraham’s time. He delayed taking this instruction due to fact that he didn’t want to participate in it. If you study all the doctrines and standards that Joseph received from God, you would see he was a man of integrity and high moral character. The church of Jesus Christ is Gods church once again upon the earth. Unless a person does an honest investigation from both the churches stand point and then the detractors, you really can’t make a fair judgement. As it says in Matthew, the best way to find out the value of an organization is to find out what kind of people are produced by following its teachings. It says in Matthew “by their fruits ye shall know them.” If you want to only listen to those who oppose Mormonism just stick with the falsehoods and misrepresentations here on the internet. Some of the best people I know.
Shermer is flat out wrong about clergy not having to pay property tax “on the home that they own”. That is patently FALSE. Clergy DO enjoy some added benefits, such as the right to become EXEMPT from paying Social Security tax, which means they also CANNOT draw Social Security once they reach the age of eligibility. (This is actually a NEGATIVE for clergy because they would have already paid into Social Security as earners for all of their adult years prior to becoming clergy, yet they can never get that money back.) Clergy also are eligible for a tax exemption on any “housing allowance”, which housing allowance must be “reasonable and customary”, not $25k per month, etc. This allowance does NOT preclude clergy from owning property on which they must still pay property taxes like everyone else. However, the total amount of their reasonable and customary housing allowance paid to them by their religious organization to which they are affiliated is completely tax deductible (i.e. tax-free). Like or hate it; that is the facts.
Here’s the thing. I grew up in a Mormon family and yeah they believe crazy shit just like every other religion but in the end, people are really nice and it creates a good family culture. And the tithing the members pay actually does go towards humanitarian aid and other things like that (besides the obvious expenses of property and facilities). I used to think the whole tithing thing was just straight up bs but facilities and land do cost money and members don’t actually have to pay money to be a member…unlike scientology. But yeah if you want to donate money to a humanitarian cause, donating through the Mormon church’s department of that, you’ll very likely get more of that money actually going towards the cause than other charities. So yeah I’m not a member anymore (well “active”.. Not going to bother getting my name removed from the records). But at the end of the day it produces really nice generous people. Plus all their churches have basketball courts…which is fuckin dope.
I’ve been in this church since birth. I left at 25. It was the absolute worst thing that ever happened to me I was forced into slave labour and imprisoned by a patriarch in Colorado. This church and the people are a horror story! When my three year old daughter was sick and dying from a curable problem, they ordered me to give the money to the church that I needed for her meds, I was unemployed at the time, they ordered me to give the church the money, and if she died, then it is gods will. I had enough of this shit and left the church, after that, they were not nice at all. I will never set foot in another church again in my life.
Well, this was an interesting conversation about Mormons and a whole bunch of other stuff mixed in there. I think Joe is basically a good dude with reasonable ideas and intentions. I’m a Mormon and I think if Joe talked with me, he would feel the same about me. We’re all more alike than we think. I agree we are “the best cult” even though we’re not a cult 😂😂 but I’m pretty chill and can find humor in all that was said. I was a missionary in Argentina and we worked with some amazing people of all religions to build communities, give opportunities for education and just do service. Of course we always share the message of Jesus Christ, but never with the intention of forcing coercing anyone. We support those who are members in the local areas and try to strengthen their “family of saints” in the area. My mission was a great experience that made me a better person who understood more about the world and the needs of people. I love my religion and what it does for my family-but none of it exists without Jesus. It’s all for Him.
Grew up Mormon for 18 years, even attended BYU Utah… I stopped being active when I was 19 and it took me until recently, 31 years old to fully realize that indeed I was raised in 100% a cult. In hindsight, everything they do is cult like behavior. Believe everything your told or get in trouble, do not ask questions. I can’t tell you how many 4,5,6 year old kids get up in front of their church every “fast” Sunday as their parents whisper into their ear to declare they believe that Joseph smith was a true prophet and the Book of Mormon is true. Then, as teenagers when the guys and girls are in class together and the teachers asks what we should look for in a future spouse all the girls raise their hand and over exaggeratedly say “a return missionary!” Mostly nice people who have honestly no idea they are in a cult and just want to be “good” but….. 100% a cult
a cult by definition is a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object. so you could really call any religion a cult. i personally am a member of the church but believe you can practice whatever religion you choose and i’ll respect it. all i ask is you do the same.
My ex-girlfriend is a Mormon, and we actually broke up because of some mix-ups and then a religious debacle near the end. The people are definitely nice, but if your only source of validity and authenticity is “spirituality” or what your heart tells you, and not actual research from non-biased sources, that can be very detrimental and saddening.
Micael, at the end of this article, you said as far as you know, most of the tithing money that is collected go to good causes like helping the poor, etc. S O M E of the money does go to helping their own mormons in good standing with the church and yes, they do send supplies, etc to nations when there is a crisis but M O S T of the collected tithing goes to the purchase of real estate, stock market investments, bonds, etc. and of course, the building of new temples constantly. I know this article is 4 1/2 years old at this point, but I thought I needed to correct that misconception of how clean of a record the mormons present themselves to the world. And yes, I do miss the “family” collectiveness of the church but the church leaders have been deceiving their members and the public ever since Joseph Smith had his first vision. They are a cult, make no mistake.
Yes, it is a cult, and Joseph Smith was brilliant. He created a religious text called the Book of Mormon and based an entire religion on that book. Where are the golden plates…? God “took them” away to test the people. Wow. How convenient. Mormons are not that friendly to people who leave the church. (At least in my experience). Read “Letter to My Wife”, or “CES Letters” to find out for yourself the truth of the LDS faith.
The more experienced Pharises in Christ said if this is not of God, nothing will come from it. If it is of God, you cant successfully overcome it. You can wear yourself out in the process. If the Book of Mormon is true, what else are we to understand. 10 minutes a day reading the BOM will lead to closer experience with Christ. This has always been my experience. Just make sure you do it when no on else is around. That way your safe and hidden.
I was married to a person who was brought up in the mormon “church”. He is a misogynist. He has bragged about how many marriages he and his 5 other brothers have had. As a 100% narcissist, I believe that his religious background has contributed to his misogynistic attitude towards women. I pray for his next victim. J. M.
There is a serious difference between Nice and KInd. I was hobbled by Mormons as a child but began resisting as a teen. Family still shuns me. I agree that the group has changed as “God” changed his views according to the times. Genuinely “NICE” people. There is so much behind the curtain. Nice is not necessarily Kind. Look deeper. Profoundly manipulated behaviorally controlled. As for Taxing Religion I’m all in. SImple. They can become non-profit. Those that actually serve their community can write it off in the same way as any charitable organization. Salvation Army for example will simply adjust. The giants? The Actual community service provided by Mormon communities is minimal and tainted. Missionaries will still withhold food to old widows to force them to marry. Yup. Just one example from my neighborhood. Dig deeper. Nice or Kind?
Why is it that the only criticism most people can provide on this subject is the fact that this church—much like plenty of other people at the time—practiced polygamy at one point? After almost 200 years since its founding, polygamy has been considered an excommunicable offense for well over half of the church’s actual existence.
I’m an ex-mormon. They’re great and nice people, till you leave. Then they’re not so nice anymore. I know great people who are mormon, and some not so great people who are mormon. Just like any other organized cult/religion. I will admit they do quite a bit of good when disasters happen. They also have control of supposedly $100B (yes B as in Billions) through owning properties, tithing and many other businesses the church owns and runs. But I’m glad I’m out and I’m able to think for myself now and be curious. The church teaches and trains you not to question their teachings and beliefs.
I’m a member of the LDS (Mormon faith) and while I was in class during church, we were prompted to “create a business” and figure out what it would be. So I decide it would be funny to choose my business to be Creating a church exactly like the Mormon religion But instead changing these few things A. 30 percent tithing B. Just make up a bunch of stories and put it a book C. Me become “God” Yeah, so it turns out they didn’t like that, so while my friends and classmates thought it was funny, my teacher decided I needed to talk to the bishop about it. That was interesting. Side notes- it’s not really a class, but more of a discussion about a certain topic with people your age overseen by an adult. If I get enough people to agree my “business” is not out of the question just yet…
I might be late but uh, clearly they don’t do a lot of research… Doing some reading around I found that a personal journal as well as in the book itself it says that he was not into the idea of polygamy, in fact he hated it. But was threatened by an Angel with a flaming swords! Not gonna lie even I’d say it ain’t worth it to go against that. And to be fair a ancient language scholar who was shown the writing scripts from the “Gold Plates” did in fact say that they were real, until he heard that a young man found them. Then he said, haha just kidding.
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed… Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son…. Someone shooting back isn’t a martyr. You cannot be a god someday. Feelings don’t equal truth. You’re not supposed to look up info on your own is that not a red flag?? .. Even the devil masquerades as an angel of light..
Joe Rogan! You keep telling these scientists Smith started it when he was fourteen! (You said the same thing to Dawkins.) That is not so. He was about thirty when he claimed to have had his vision at fourteen. It sounds like you are buying into the common Mormon defense, ‘How could such a young person have come up with all this?’ Well, he didn’t. We don’t want people going around giving this swindler more credit than he deserves, like he was some sort of ‘religious/BS prodigy’.
The story of Joseph Smith finding the golden plates is something. Try actually reading the Book of Mormon in a serious way. It is a miraculous book that has amazing power to bring one closer to Jesus Christ. It has brought me such peace and joy in my life and taught me so much about how to be a true follower of Jesus Christ. Oh, and Colorado City is not on the border of Colorado. It’s in Arizona.
I still don’t understand why people think of polygamy when someone brings up “mormonism”. Yes, it was a thing in the 1800s, but it was then realized that the practice should end. Little to no mormons still practice polygamy. This ended over 200 years ago. And any religion can be called a cult. That doesn’t mean they are brainwashed or outcasts. NOT ALL CULTS ARE BAD! I don’t like the name cult, but I understand the definition of it. BTS army can be considered a cult, but that doesn’t mean they are weird and bad people. Before you make assumptions about groups of people, look more into it before making mormons seem like bad people.
As an ex- Mormon, the stuff that goes on in their temples are pretty sketchy/cult-ish. When you are 12, you can do baptisms for the dead which ” gives dead ppl the chance to become Mormons ” But what the church DOESNT teach u about is endowments and marriage ceremonies. Endowments are literally the practices of a cult the ” handshakes”, handraises, chants and attire are cults. Marriages only let ppl who are previously married in the temple and ” are worthy” to attend them in the temple. The women ” gives ” themself to the man. And are given a duty to have children and raise them in the church. They both have to wear temple clothes so a white temple suit for the man and an ugly white gown to be the wedding gown for the women. They both kneel across each other on this weird podium thing during the ceremony
I went to an all-girl Catholic church in Ireland and in Secondary school, there was a girl from Zambia who was a Mormon. I didn’t think anything of it until I had a sleepover in her house. The Elders popped over and wanted me to join in their prayer meeting. I declined and just went upstairs and waited for the session to be over. When my friend came back, she told me that the Elders were convinced Ireland was going to be the Promise Land. I laughed thinking she was joking but she was serious. Then, she told me that in the next life, she would be rewarded a God-like identity and have her own planet where her husband will have multiple wives and they will bore billions more gods.
I invite anyone who has a cynical view about LDS tithing to visit one of the LDS church canneries. If you’ve never put in volunteer time at an LDS church cannery you are missing out on a big part of what the church does to help families specifically. Who are down on their luck, stuck in a jam, and literally struggling to put food on their tables. Those LDS church canneries crank out endless tons of nutritious, quality food. 100% explicitly for the church’s welfare arm. And I can speak with 100% first-hand confidence and experience, that the church welfare arm keeps whole neighborhoods afloat in my little hardscrabble zip code alone. To say nothing of the national LDS welfare effort, much less the international LDS welfare effort. Millions of volunteer man-hours invested, as well as millions of dollars poured into the project. So while it’s eye-rolling hearing Rogan laugh about Joseph Smith being a liar (because Rogan cannot imagine himself at 14 doing anything like what Smith did, and it not being a total charade) I don’t really care. I do care when people start throwing shade about how the LDS church is just another money-grubbing for-profit scheme. The men and women who make up the leadership and the service in the wards and the stakes never see a dime. They are giving their time while also living their lives, including working jobs and raising families like everyone else. And they tithe. And the offer on the fast. I know. My wife was Relief Society President while I was overseas with the military, and afterward.
I’m a Latter-day Saint, and you can make anything sound this horrible if you leave out enough details. You’re welcome to your own beliefs but this is really far from looking at this story in good faith. Without going into a huge history lesson, it’s telling that Emma Smith, Joseph Smith’s first wife, loved Joseph and loved him deeply her whole life. She struggled with polygamy but she genuinely felt it came from God. Joseph was never convicted of a crime. He and his people were subject to some of the worst persecution of their time. Those dudes that signed the affidavit at the beginning? They signed their names saying they met the same angel that mentored Joseph Smith. They for different reasons turned their backs on Joseph and fell away. Some came back. None, not one, ever denied their testimony that they seen an angel and the gold plates the Book of Mormon was translated from. Joseph Smith was basically illiterate, that’s more or less correct. You look at his personal journal and you can tell he didn’t have much of an education. Yet he dictated a complex, consistent book that uses Hebrew poetry like chiastic structures that wasn’t well known until well after his death. This book tells a geographically consistent and complex narrative over the period of a thousand years if you don’t include the Jaredite record, is hundreds of pages long, and he did it without notes, without asking for anything to be read back to him, over the period of a couple of months. All this an millions of people over the last 200 years claim to have had spiritual experiences relating to this work.
FLDS and LDS are the same thing, they believe all the same stuff just FLDS have a different prophet (which in itself is a joke) instead fo the 13 the LDS church has and FLDS abide by the command in D&C section 132, thats all. Yea, its weird, the Mormons believe their leaders, that they can see into the future, can magically detect lies, read any language and a bunch of other crap. Its lunacy.
As a Mormon, this isn’t a freaking cult. I’ve left the church before. You can come and go as you please. The FLDS though, that’s a little different. I’ve known people that have had to get a swat team involved to get out of that community, and they try to keep your children if you try to take them with you. It’s very strange!
With all do respect to Mormons, they are some of the sweetest people I ever met.. however, with all the ones I have met, I do find it very odd how similar all the women were of the LDS. Literally. Their mannerisms, their tone, their submissiveness, was all almost very robotic.. The men were very chill, confident, free spirited.. but I found it unsettling how the women were so almost morphed in a way that was intentional, and this isn’t even FLDS, just LDS. It was very off putting.
They’re beliefs are a bit nutty and contradicting but overall they seem wholesome and friendly with exceptional basketball skills and aren’t hurting anyone so live and let live,but hey I’m just a man on this land and want people to live happy lives no matter how you choose to achieve it.cheers to humanity 🥂 love,Peace and chicken grease ✌️
Such nice people that basically shun family members who no longer believe in the Mormon Church. You can still believe in Jesus, but if you were once a Mormon and denounce the church, you are going to the realm of heaven with Lucifer and his angels, aka Hell.They also don’t believe that you can go to heaven by grace not deeds. They instead believe your entry into is heaven is ALL about deeds. There are major differences. So how are they considered Christians?
This is my first experience with Joe Rogan and I am really surprised. I was under the impression that Joe Rogan had a fact checker. First, the polygamists in those border towns are not members of the Mormon Church. Second, the First pages of the Book of Mormon have nothing to do with polygamy. Joe, go READ what it says before you talk about it.
Utah isn’t hardcore-Mormon anymore. After the ’02 Olympics in Salt Lake the rest of the world started moving in and the church HATED it. People with other beliefs and more education started influencing the populous of Utah. Their most devout supporters with the most stubborn people, isolated from outside influence are primarily in Idaho. First Presidency consider BYU-I and the State of Idaho where their most influential and loyal members are. If you look at census data it looks like a nuke; 96% LDS in Rexburg with BYU-I, and slowly gets slightly lower as you move away, but throughout the State, it really doesn’t drop below 70% LDS. Boise and the surrounding area is a bit different, because again, you have more educated and diverse populous. The church feeds on isolated and uneducated people who were born into it. The surrounding culture and trauma it inflicts on innocent children during key developmental phases causes a scenario where it’s difficult if not impossible to EVER leave the church. The cops are Mormon, the judges are Mormon, the teachers are Mormon, your neighbors are Mormon, the child protective services are Mormon, the therapists are Mormon, etc. It’s really fucked up. I still kind of can’t believe that it’s possible for a single religious group to have that much control and influence over an entire region, but it’s right there. Plain as day.
“I’m not a fan of them going to these poor countries and proselytizing… but I think the way they deal with (each other) it’s a very warm, and friendly, and family environment.” What’s the worry? 🤷♂️ Nobody’s going to read this but when I went to one of those poor countries to proselytize it’s because I wanted someone to feel that warmth and support from the local members, but more importantly, from God. Just some thoughts.
Not trying to convert anyone, but either Joseph Smith as a young boy had a time machine or other means of knowing all the nuts and bolts of the peoples in the Americas and their traditions both in their culture and as a society or he was truly given the golden plates which he then translated to give us various testimonies of Prophets and their testimony of Jesus Christ which can be found in the Book of Mormon. Read it and you will see the plethora of information that can be found there, which not even scholars in the early 1820’s knew about existed let alone a young boy.
I’m an active member of this faith and I do concede that there re weirdos who go to extremes within our ranks; they nit-pick and grasp at doctrinal straws and though well intentioned are not the best representation of us as a whole. Were just a church that believes in a proactive ever developing doctrine
I find you can tell more about the LDS church by thier actions not words. Like how they lobbied to kill a show “escaping polygamy” that was 3 girls who escaped from LDS spinoff cults. The lds church constantly says its part of their church, so then why is it the LDS church harassed the producers of that show so badly? Colorado City, which was FLDS, was having the Arizona Legislature looking at disbanding its police department because it was heavily corrupt and was engaging in enforcing intimidation against people who werent members of the cult. LDS members of the Arizona legislature killed the process, Mormon Doris Goodale A Mormon vehemently opposed the measure and refused to acknowledge them or warren Jeffs (who is jailed for havign sex with children) ever did anything wrong at all. Again if the LDs church has no part of polygamy why does it defend it and attack those who stand against so violently?
I had some experiences lately that have left me questioning everything, personally I find the Mormon story to be unbelievable entirely but I definitely believe in god and Jesus, but a few months ago me and my ex broke up and I was hanging by a thread literally had a noose tied up ready to go in my closet, and out of nowhere this Mormon girl messages me and says god loves me and asks me to come to church with her, then the weeks following that I would be doing okay and not hear a word from her, then something would happen to really upset me and I would be close to making a bad decision again and Literally like clockwork she would message me, sometimes literally the very moment that the bad thought crossed my mind, idk I’ve had a lot Of weird experiences and coincidences in life but this is something different it has to be, it’s too weird to explain I don’t know what to think
I think you should only be exempt from taxes if you can prove you are a legitimate charity–That is, free of corruption and not trying to spread beliefs of any sort. It should be helping people, period, without any ulterior motives. I wish Joe would quit going on about how wonderfully nice Mormons are. That soft-spoken, unperturbable character is a carefully cultivated façade. This is not to say Mormons AREN’T nice–Most people are, regardless of background or religion. But Mormons’ extremely conservative politics aren’t very nice or accepting, they will ostracize you for things like being gay and simply not believing, and on a day-to-day basis there are nice Mormons and nasty Mormons, just like with anyone else. (If you actually grow up in Utah and are not a member of the club, you also feel very excluded.) There is more to being nice than being soft-spoken, wearing pastels and not swearing.
Common lay Mormons are typical, charitable, kind, and giving Christians. *However, the leaders of the faith are, without a doubt, narcissistic cult leaders. They are mired in their necks with controversy and fraud and they have no qualms using fear and shame to keep members from leaving. The Mormon church has a very colorful and distasteful history, which many members have been studying and leaving because of how horribly misrepresented the facts are. If you’re drinking the Mormon Koolaid, most members have a good life in the church, If they don’t look too deeply into the history and tow all the lines. If you don’t conform, however, the church starts to feel like a cult, no doubt about it.
Clearly, there is only one way to receive salvation and that is to know God and His Son, Jesus (John 17:3). Receiving salvation is not done by works but by faith (Romans 1:17; 3:28). We can receive this gift no matter who we are or what we have done (Romans 3:22). “Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved” (Acts 4:12). Although Mormons are usually friendly, loving, and kind people, they are deceived by a false religion that distorts the nature of God, the Person of Jesus Christ, and the means of salvation.
Start filling your lamps people with oils. That means start reading the word of God so you won’t be deceived by lies. You want to know who’s the real deal? Then confirmed everything with the word of God. Check the fruits. If you don’t prepare then you will be easily fooled. 2 Corinthians 11:14 14And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. Do you really need to understand what this verse means? We all know Satan is a liar who loves to confuse and deceive God’s children.
“Mormons are insane and brainwashed, but they’re actually great and very Christlike people.” Come on guys😂 I guess trying to reason with people who don’t truly believe in the Bible and that God is the same yesterday, today, and forever is a bit of a dead end. I’d love to talk with anybody about church history!
I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Mormon is just a nickname that was given by our enemies. Joe, you should interview a member of the Quorum of the 12 apostles, that will give you a better idea of who we are and what webelieve. Polygamy was encouraged for the first years of the church to “build up a generation ” to the Lord, but only 10percent of the members of the church ever lived in polygamy. The FLDS church is not part of our church. Polygamy ended in the 1880’s, got it? To find out if the golden plates were real, all anyone has to do is read the Book of Mormon. It is the word of God and is another testament of Jesus Christ. It’s not a weird religion, it is the way to salvation. No one can judge our religion until they read the Book of Mormon. It’s an inspired book. I promise you’ll see it too.
y’all are so quick to diss mormons but if you do your god damn research and actually ponder your purpose here on earth you’ll quickly realize that YOU are the lost one lol. not one of you can give me a sufficient answer that’s backed up by revelation and facts that explains why you’re here living in these latter days. the church of jesus christ holds information that you guys won’t humble yourselfs to look into. as a mormon i agree the standards are pretty crazy, and i personally don’t live by most. i know mormons can be weird as hell but don’t let that taint our religion. god has a plan for each and every one of us ya’ll. as a 17 year old i can confidently testify that this is the only true church and everything within has been built upon the rock of jesus christ. this is HIS church and HE leads it through our living prophet russel m nelson by a process called revelation. you guys are too busy focusing on the “type of people” or the “crazy standards” instead of why we do what we do. we’re different for a reason. we are the church of jesus christ of latter day saints and the gospel will bring light to anyone who humbles themselves and exercises faith. we’re in a corrupted world and it’s going to continue to deteriorate until our savior comes again. i love y’all and it makes me so sad that i can help the majority of humanity. i beg y’all to humble yourselves and i promise you will be blessed in ways you can’t imagine. it’s simple, listen and obey the lord and his commandments = blessings.
You say that Mormons are Christians. They are not. They do not believe that Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God. They believe that He is one of many sons. They do not believe that God is an invisible Spirit, as it states in the Bible. They believe that God is a man living on another planet. Do your homework.
That’s how they sucker you in, they act very nice and kind but very rarely do anything to actually help, they also play the victim when anyone questions their belief, Christianity is just a complete copy of Judaism, the jews do the same thing, someone questions them and suddenly their an anti semite, they just don’t see that they themselves are doing the persecution
You have to love it, you can tell when a article gets put on the list for LDS Social Media Missionaries (trolls) to comment on and when its not. All of a sudden you have a bunch of comments from a bunch of different accounts none of which actually watched the article all saying close to the same thing. Then suddenly when its off the list nothing. If the guy had been black the LDS trolls would of been 1000 times worse.
Polygamy in the Mormon religion started because a lot of the men were being killed and their communities were shrinking and the ratio of men to women were off and started repopulating their communities. It is not condone any more because it was at a time of desperation. A lot of the extremist cult versions of the lds still want to practice it. I have my concerns about the entire religion but growing up it did have a huge influence in my life and helped me in many ways and are some of the nicest and giving people. Maybe Joseph smith was a con artist idk but I know there is a lot of good that comes from the church. Cmon who doesn’t want many wives 🤷♂️ lol
It’s funny because the only Church the American Government has openly attacked in the modern era is the Catholic Church and that was specifically because of JFK (Irish Catholic), basically they were afraid of the “Catholic bloc” using their churches as poll boosters and put in a special clause that would revoke tax exemption status if they promoted him.
I’m a life long member of the lds church proper name is “the church of jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints” and this was a nice discussion. Just fyi Lds people are not fundamental Mormons. It’s frustrating when people assume we’re all the same. But anyways it’s funny to me when people laugh at the Joseph smith story because in all of history it’s been the strange “out there” ideas, beliefs and thoughts that people always mock and ridicule, flight, electricity, a round earth, walking on the moon were all ideas that at one point we’re all beliefs of crazy people then came to be reality. So that’s why I’ll never ever dismiss crazy claims or ideas or testimonies because anything’s possible really. We don’t know everything so why laugh at ideas or stories that seem crazy??? Especially when they are truly good people mostly. Jesus said “by their works ye shall know me”
I’m a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints – I find the argument against Joseph Smith extremely shallow. Like, you really think he could come up with The Book of Mormon in 53 working days? Most books today take 4-8 months to produce. If Joseph did make up the Book of Mormon, then answer the following: -How did Joseph know so much about the Arabian Peninsula? -If the gold plates never existed, how did Joseph get numerous witnesses to stand by their stories until their dying day, even when some of them later became angry with Joseph and left the Church? -How could Joseph have known about ancient cement technology in the first century B.C. in Mesoamerica? -Why does ancient Mesoamerican geography AND culture provide a plausible setting for the Book of Mormon? -How could Joseph Smith make up dozens of names in the Book of Mormon that would later be shown to be authentic ancient Semitic names? -Where did Joseph Smith get the idea of ancient scriptures written on metal plates? -How did Joseph Smith know about ancient practices regarding preservations of sacred texts? -Why do other ancient documents support the Book of Mormon’s idea that the ancient Joseph prophesied of Moses and Aaron?