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📹 Everything You Need to Know About Taps & Dies – Gear Up With Gregg’s
Let’s cut to the chase: Whether you’re starting a new project, or chasing old threads on a fixer-upper, Tap and Die sets are …
📹 The HOLY GRAIL of Precision Machining | SIP Hydroptic 6 Jig Borer
We are finally revealing our 1950s SIP Hydroptic-6 Jig Borer! The SIP Jig borers have a signature optical measuring system and …
Thanks for the great tutorial! Well done. A word of caution! When fabricating your own fasteners, remember the ones you buy are heat treated after they are made. Also the material is of much higher strength and quality that the cheep mild steel you have laying around. Example: You want to attach your seat belt to the cross member behind the seat. Say you used ¼ inch thick material. Well a coarse bolt only has max 3.5 threads engaged (really more like TWO, the first and last don’t hold much) and a fine pitch has max. FIVE and that in mild steel tubing. Please don’t bet your life on it. The bolt will rip right out. Grade 8 fasteners exist for a reason.
Very informative, my only question is what is the difference between for example a 5/16- 18 and 5/16-24 tap. I can obviously tell one is a finer thread than the other. So I guess my next question is, which one is typically used more most threaded hex bolts. Asking because I have a set but only need like 4 of the taps in the set for work. I don’t want to try and use the wrong one and mess up the threaded hole. That would be a huge problem especially since we don’t have a fabrication department to remake the part I messed up for 3rd shift
I did not realize this article was over a year old until I finished typing this comment but I’m posting it anyway…. Quick tip: An easy way to put a perfect and centered chamfer on a rod (not bent); Chuck it up in a cordless/corded drill for rotation while grinding the chamfer on a bench grinder. Turns out pretty nice. Lastly, I have not taken the time to read the comments but, that nut was pretty loose fitting and it also looks like a lock nut which makes it even worse. I’m sure it was used only as a quick example for the article and not meant to be 100% accurate. I’ve been a heavy equipment mechanic for 23 years and knowledgeable about most of the content but I did learn something new. I never realized there was an actual technique of going back half a turn per full revolution when it came to breaking the chips. I did it by feel which would probably explain why I broke a few taps in the past. It was a pretty good article and got me to click the subscribe button. I look forward to checking out more content from Gregg Distributors. Thanks
I want to secure air hose runs for an on board air compressor sytem and secure the lines to the fram of the vehicle, I was wondering if tap and die or Self taping screws would be better? I would probaly be installing some type of SS Cable Clips in these locations. If I tap and die machine threads into the vehicle fram on say 24″ Centers would I be ok tapping then using a thread locker or would adding a lock washer be more appropriate? And lastly, i want to mount two L brackets of some heavier gauge Steel comparable to the frame thickness in Gauge. Should I Tap and Die 3 or 4 Holes per Bracket to the frame to mount the Dual Air Compressors and same questions apply what would be best practice in both scenarios? Lastly I may want to mount a larger Heavier Brack to a Cross Member to Accomadate the Air Tank, your thoughts there as well? Thank you in advance for your help?
This is the sort of thing they should be teaching (more often) in schools…my older brother was the last generation to learn this in high school shop class, during the 1980s. His class project was to make a set of nuts and bolts using the tap and die set. No breaking the taps, the nuts and bolts must thread properly, or it’s an “F”.
This was great and is a popular vid for the subject of taps and dies. My question is about tap wrenches and die stocks. How do you know which one to buy? How many sizes are there? I recently purchased a couple of very fine thread dies. I knew I’d need a die stock so I bought a kit. But the dies in the kit were much smaller than the die I had bought separately. I’ve watched a bunch of articles but I don’t see anyone explaining how to match the appropriate die stock/wrench to the die/tap. There seem to be a lot of different sizes!
Man, inches are so damn illogical. I’m in need of a bsw tap, and a die, and I’m not sure what sizes they are. I have an old bolt thats ruined but I checked the only living threads on it and its a perfect match with 24g 3/16 7/32. I know its 55° so its bsw. The major diameter of the threads is very close to 7/8. So what should I google to find the right size tap? I’d really appreciate it if someone took the time to help me. I’m very unfamiliar with inches
Not Everything…Once I make the hole what size bolt goes in it? Didn’t answer that. Or the reverse. Once I make a bolt, what size hole does it will it fit into. These kits tell you what drill bit to use & what tap to use…but then what size screw to buy? answer me that & I will come back & like 5 of your articles. Deal?
This should include “for beginners”. No info on how you sharpen the stuff and some incorrect info as well. No carbon steel taps are not for “soft stuff” while HSS are for “hard stuff” 🙂 Carbon steel taps / dies are for hand operation and are “old school” stuff – HSS is for hand ans slow machine operation. Also no mention of carbide.
OK, good sir I have my m17 oil bolt for my scooter 125cc and noticed a some brittle metal or grey cast iron on the bolt? I cleaned it off and noticed it was the hole/thread. So when I go to tighten it down, it keeps turning without tightening? What is the best method to solve this problem? I was thinking of using m17 drill, then tap it with m18? Is that how it works?
Thank you for this instructional article, I bought a couple taps and a few hex dies. Came across this article cause I needed to know which side of the hex die I put into the die stock, and I got a lot of useful tips and information on how to properly use this tool. Can any kind of lubricant like 3-in-1 oil work if you don’t have tapping fluid?
I mainly use these to repair/clean threads. I had to do an M22x1.5 and the end was mushroomed, the nuts would fit on the other axle. I had to buy a new set as my current one topped out at M16/M18. Getting that thread recovered meant I had to reverse the tools. I held and turned the part while keeping the handle still. Luckily for me the part was a drive shaft and had didn’t matter if I was bending it as the bottom part with the threads was being kept still regardless. 2 hours later and that nut went on nicely, then I did the nuts. Even better.
Thanks for a great article . I have always thought that you were meant to use all 3 taps Taper then Plug followed by Bottom, so I have learnt something . I have a question regarding Split Dies, the type with a screw either side of the split in the die . Am I right assuming that the screws are for closing up the Die and adjusting the depth of cut ? . Also when I used to sell Tap and Die sets they were either Carbon Steel or Tungsten Steel which was more expensive . So is HSS the new name for Tungsten .
Cool article! Can anyone help me out? I’m looking for a nut with at least a 2 inch diameter hole… I’d like to file the threads (coarse thread of course) in order to make a device to cut threads on a wooden dowel. I’ve pretty much seen all the articles on YouTube, and I really don’t want to make a screw box that would require precisely having to line up a file to make them. Just seems to be. Bit easier to make a tap and die from a larger nut and bolt
I had some oddball taps from a machine shop somebody gave me a few years ago. They’re spiraled like twist drill bits with teeth. I guess they’re used if you need extra clean out to prevent chips from clogging your hole. I tried buying these in a hardware store. They must be exclusive to machine shops and can only be purchased at an industrial supply store. Most new dies are hex now. Very seldom see round ones.
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My father worked in Switzerland with this machine in the 60s. As someone wrote already, my dad said that it was in a room that was temperature, humidity-controlled and had an operating room level air scrubber. He proudly explained to me how he worked with. Now, 22 years after he passed away, I see this amazing machine. It is touching to me. He would be very interested in your website. Thank you very much, Mr Korenko.
I did my toolmaker apprenticeship at Holden in Adelaide (Woodville plant). We had 2 of these machines in a temperature controlled room and I was fortunate enough to be trained on them and work in there on many occasions. These machines are bang on accurate and have no vibration or chatter when machining. Exactly like a Rolls Royce would be if it was a jig borer.
These SIP machines are indeed the top of the food chain. We had one in a room by itself that was temperature, humidity controlled and had an operating room level air scrubber. Only two operators in the shop were allowed to run it. They had a full service and certification annually. You got a helluva machine there
It makes me watery eyed seeing how well that machine is made, how well its documented, the diagrams, the spares and even how nicely the accessories are all boxed up. Its from an age where engineering seemed to ooze a level of pride that seems to have diminished. Its a large boxy, grey and heavy piece of kit, but its a thing of beauty to my eyes and built to last too!
I started my Apprenticeship in ’79 as a Fitter and Turner and after completing my trade with the added modules I was a Toolmaker at the Ordnance Factory Maribyrnong in Victoria. In our toolroom we had a Hydroptic 4, 6 and 8 which was beside each other in a controlled atmosphere. The 8 had 2 spindles, a vertical and horizontal which were aligned within 0.0002″ so machining holes that were 90 degrees to each other and were aligned was easy. During the 90’s we were making gearbox housings for the American Army for the M1 Abrams tank when the Gulf War was in full swing on the Hydroptic 6. At that point in time I was the Toolmaker Checker and so all the housings went through me before being sent to the USA. Unfortunately that meant working 80 hours a week, starting at 5:30 in the morning 7 days a week for 18 months doing 10 and 12 hour days. We worked all holidays except Christmas day and was the first time I earned more than $32,000 as I think the base wage for a toolmaker was around the $22,000ish mark. If the machine is the same as ours they have a glass scale which is where you get the black line that you align the 2 fingers when looking through the optics. The optical centre that goes in the spindle can also be used to pick up an edge. As the machines aged the best thing we did was put a DRO on the 4 and 6 as we were in the phase of going from Imperial to Metric so at the flick or a switch it went from Imperial to Metric and was just as accurate as the optics. The best thing about going to the DRO was you could make your fine adjustments in either direction unlike the optical which has to be done in one direction to maintain accuracy and if you go past you have to back off and start again.
Hi Curtis, Just found your excellent presentation and I have experience to add to your project. I was a maintenance engineer at the Small Arms Factory where we had two SIP Jig Borers, an old one and one like yours. In 1965 the SAF bought a 7A CN with NC rotary table making it a 4 axis NC machine. I was sent to Geneva for 9 weeks to study all the systems concentrating on the electronics and how to fix it if it fails. At that time GM Fishermans Bend bought a 6A CN and a few years later the Ammunition Factory Footscray bought a 6A CN. I had great experiences associated with this machine and later learned that when the SAF was disbanded, the 7A was auctioned off and went to the USA. What a shame. At this time the 7A with rotary table cost around 250,000 pounds. I recall that the positioning accuracy was +- .0001inch even with up to 1 ton on the table and it would do this on auto (NC), The table moves on very accurate rollers so accurate that SIP had to build their own factory to make them. The factory had isolated foundations to isolate the grinding of the rollers form all sources of vibration. The agent in Sydney was Mechanical Precision Equipment, the owner Cliff Done, the father of Ken Done the artist. Cheers.
nice machine ! Btw. 5:05 is not to set the table, it’s to zero the scale to the next full (5-ish) digit. A lot of european machines from that time have the same feature. So its easyer for the operator to calculate long travel distances. You get to do a lot of calculating in your head when working with analog measuring systems. When zeroing, I use the tecnique of zeroing the 1mm scale, zeroing the 0.01mm scale on the handweel and then calculating the travel on the sacle, adding the needed rotations on the fine adjusting weel scale. You can then easely and fast travel your distance routhly by the 1mm scale, for eg. 250.5 mm travel, from 425mm to 675mm, then dialing in the 0.5mm with the fine scale on the handweel. And because all your indicators/scales are on the same zero, it works like a calculator. I also used to mark my “waypoints” with a permanent marker on the 1mm scale, so its easyer to navigate. When you are on 645mm on the 1mm scale, and 0 on the handweel scale, you are exactly at 645.00mm – I hope that makes sense, greetings from switzerland.
When I was an apprentice machinist in late 60’s General Electric aircraft in Cincinnati, Ohio, USA had one installed. Besides the HVAC control in the room, it had to be put on an isolated floor to keep the vibration of the other machines from affecting it. What I remember most is the Swiss engineer who came over to calibrate it. Wore a suit with white shirt and when he was finished it was still white! Thank you Kurtis for sharing this with us!
OMG x 1319! What an absolutely amazing machine, from a ‘proper’ company, AND a time when companies had genuine pride in what they were producing. All those standard, and spare parts included. Oh my heart just melts. Totally excellently described principles of operation too. You (and machine) are a credit to each other. Regards Mark in the UK
Just found your website, love it. This takes me back, I’m 80 and I have retired quite a few years ago but being a machinists was one of the happiest times being on the machines was better than being a supervisor. Thank you for this website, I’d love to be in your workshop. I would think that if I had the money I’d have a little workshop in my back yard just to play with.
A very impressive machine you have bought there 👌,back in my days(1970’s) the reason there were 2 identicle books was that one was with the operator (always dirty ) the other (very clean ) was in the office and never ever allowed onto the shop floor.When trying to repair the machines the operators book was often unreadable because of the dirty fingerprints left by the previous repair guy.You then had to beg the office manager to allow you to have acess to his clean copy,easier said than done.Grovelling comes to mind and being told wash your bloody hands and wipe your boots.Good old days when working class knew blue collars workers were better than them.😂The spares you found brought back memories of when all machines came like this, the manufacturer provided wear items that would need replacing under about 2 years of use .I remember they were also wrapped in waxed paper to protect them.👴Your articles always bring back memories that are locked away in the old vault,thanks Kurtis.😊
Hi Curtis, I was in Geneva a couple of days ago and found this information about the SIP Company – Geneva Physical Instruments Society (SIP) Company founded by the physicist Auguste De la Rive and the botanist Marc Thury with the aim of manufacturing devices and instruments necessary for research and scientific and scientific experiments. In 1870, the engineer Theodore Turrettini joined the management of the company. It expanded into the machine tool and precision mechanics sectors. and precision mechanics. The company has become famous for the production of high-precision heel rolls. The company has up to 1400 employees at its two sites in Plainpalais and Chatelaine. In 1990, SIP moved to Satigny. In 2006, it was bought by the StarragHeckert group. The Satigny plant closed in 2016. Kind regards, Jim – Brussels – Belgium 😉
Fantastic and it brought me back memories during 1978’s, best of Swiss Jig Borer. I m retired toolmaker over 27 years of engineering work at Engineering Scientific Equipment at Alperton, Wembley London….fine precision machinery & instrument tools most magnificent machines I have ever work, masterpiece of engineering . Thank you, god bless you and fine machinery!
This absolutely awesome machine found the right new home – your workshop! Thank you for all the explanations and for revealing the beauty of this masterpiece of engineering. Even perusal your article was like birthday and Christmas together when you opened all these boxes. I also appreciated all the comments from you guys who shared stories from the old days. Greetings from Germany!
That is a stunning piece of equipment that you have found. The condition that it is in, all the tooling, manuals and all the electrical spares that have come with it. There was a machine works somewhere in Aus That had really cared and maintained for it as its over 60 years. And with your TLC I’m sure that it will give another 60 years of service. Thanks for a relaxing start to the weekend with a few cold beverages. Stay dry.
What a great piece of fine engineering kit! Beautifully engineered and made, the quality can be see in the detail of the boxes for accessories as well as the machine itself. Swiss watch type quality for a heavy engineering machine. Great find young man and a very interesting article too. Well done CEE, I look forward to seeing more of this fine machine. Top regards to all!
I was a machinist toolmaker for Aerojet General for 32 years in Folsom, California. We had two SIP’S identical to what you now own. One of my most favorite machines to operate in the shop. Extreme accuracy doesn’t even come close to what those machine’s are capable of. You are fortunate to own one. All the wear marks on the paint of that machine look so familiar. Wouldn’t it be something if that machine was purchased at the plant closure in Folsom .
Speaking on precision this article was uploaded at 12:01am Pacific Standard time. Curious as to how much time the Mrs. has put into making sure that the article is edited and ready to upload at such a precise time. It is actually incredible how hard you guys work towards the “Under promise, Over deliver” part. Thank you for your precision.
After reading comments below by some folks who have used these machines, it would be great to have some of them come to the shop and show you a few tips and tricks…and more fun than reading the manual and making mistakes. A article of some of the “Old Timers” showing you things would be a real treat.
Amazing piece of machinery! You are one lucky dude. Just perusal this article was like being there and actually owning it with you. I live in Seattle and was fortunate to have a grandfather and father that had both a metal shop and wood shop that I grew up with. I was operating a 9″ South Bend engine lathe since I was 13 years of age. I ended up being a plumber so I didn’t have a chance to continue with machining metal, but I did get into wood working and ended up making 500 pens after I retired from Home Depot. Now that I’m retired I’m able to watch these YouTube articles on machining and in my estimation you are one of the best. Along with your wife/photographer and doggie, Homeless. Keep up the great articles. I enjoy every one of them. And please get the feed handle on the boring machine fixed and show us what it can do. Thanks, Larry Ferrari from Seattle.
Let me get this straight, to get her going you have to flip some switches, activate the lubricant fluid, flip a travel lever to the correct speed, move a lever forwards and back, turn some big knobs, smaller knobs, and finally some knobs under a hood which is difficult to reach, then move some other smaller levers, unlock the spindles and axis, rotate a wheel, hit 2 more levers, set the speed rate and finally hit the start button. Where as to get him going you just need to flip his switch and blow a little?
Wow, that brought back memories. I worked on one occasionally for a couple of years over 50 years ago about that size. I was told it was recovered from a salt mine somewhere in Europe after the end of World War 2 as part of war reparations! It had a direct reading optical scale system different to yours, you looked through an eyepiece similar to the one on the optical center finder, it was in the same position to your measuring setup. It had the same on the cross head. SIP really wanted to get hold of it to upgrade! I worked as a civilian for a British military establishment at that time. We had several pieces of interesting machinery including an extremely accurate thread grinder. A metric machine but an imperial leadscrew. The leadscrew was ‘borrowed’ by a machine tool company to cut another master! as it was so accurate! Enjoy your machine I did!!
At least one of those electrical spares is a capacitor (the one with “µF” on its label). If it is an electrolytic capacitor, it is probably shot by now, because these types of capacitors do not hold up forever. Probably it might be worthwhile to check/have checked the ones currently in the machine: If they are bad, this might cause damage to the rest of the electrics.
What a great old machine. We had a Moore jig bore at my old shop, but it rarely got used. So glad this old beauty is going to get preserved and used for real stuff. That book with all the tables, I just imagine a little old swiss man with a slide rule making all these calculations. So old school cool!
This article is a masterpiece for presenting so many of the nearly endless functions of that stunning machine! I’m delighted that someone had the foresight to keep all of the accessories and tooling with it and that it got into your hands! With all of the comments here anything I would write would be redundant. My great grandfather and grandfather were Swiss engineers, so this machine is so I am especially attracted to this machine. Thanks for the wonderful presentation and perfect articlegraphy, as always.
Congratulations! I used to work on a SIP 6 35yrs ago at our federal aviation company nowadays known as RUAG here in Switzerland. The machine was in a 20° conditioned glass box with ALL the tool options from the SIP catalogue. Until today this work experience remains as my personal TOP in terms of precision and smoothness. Just a dream for any passionate machinist. As you said correctly it’s the Holy Grail in our machinist world imo.
That’s so cool. I have a DoAll band saw that has a similar sort of control for the table. I’m in the process of refurbishing it. It’s an MP20 I believe and if I remember correctly was built in 1952. I love the old tools. It can be a PITA to get parts for them but they were built to outlast the sun. I love that attitude of building something that can be repaired and run indefinitely versus building something that’s meant to eventually be thrown away.
I love the bloopers at the end, but I must say as a young fella who worked as a appy fitter at an abattoir and is now a fabrication appy I love seeing a tradesman with actual tradesmen quality nowadays it seems like a dying bread. Love learning from your vids and look forward to learning more from a proper trady 💙
All those hidden goodies are the real gems. Having those really increases the value of the machine. Kinda like buying an airplane with all the manuals and old parts. I just bought a horizontal/vertical mill from a closed gear shop. The owners ust have been in avaition because all the machine came with manuals and maintenenace log books. Mine even had the parking attachemnt and vertical head on it. You never find them that way. Too many shops pull them off and send to the tool room, never to be seen on the machine again.
I nearly wet myself, as an apprentice we were using a SIP model 5E. What a lovely machine to use and the parts were spot on too. How lucky were you to get all that awesome tooling with it, mind you the SIP system, as you said, would not fit the “run of the mill” machines. After leaving the company after a few years, I never worked on a SIP jig borer again. A Japanese one I worked on, but never was the same as the 5E. They still produced a good product though, just not the silky smooth SIP. I never saw the front lifting holes on the 5E, but I just loved seeing the fantastic hidey hole for the electric spares, a great Aladdin’s cave you found. Thanks once again for making us old engineers happy.
Love the article! One can clearly see that you are very excited about that machine. My grandpa worked at SIP in the sixties as a machinist priducing parts for machines. I do not know if there are any parts from him on this exact machine, but he would certainly be proud that these machines are still used today.
Kurtis, you and your wife and safety officer have a very special place here on planet earth. You guys are so dedicated to your craft and to each other. Keep up the solid work for your customers and us that vicariously live a life of “pretend machining” through your website. I love perusal your content and the antics and happy times from Mr Safety. (Lol) I mentioned to my wife that if we visit Australia in our retirement years (10 more years) that I’d like to goto a machine shop in the Gold Coast and visit a pay respects to a real machinist doing heavy machining on mining equipment. Her eyes glazed and she fell ill…(lol) …anyway by then you’ll be a multi millionaire having several million subs and views on each article. Thanks again for your content and please keep everyone’s finger’s and toes happy..
I can’t remember the last time I’ve enjoyed a YouTube article so much! Can’t wait for you to work on that marvel of a human engineering! Said it before and I’ll say it again – THANK YOU SOOOOO MUCH for these articles!!! God bless you both and hopefully you’ll give us many, many more articles to cherish and enjoy… 🙂
Fascinating, hope you find out the back story. There was a lot of cutting edge engineering (!) going on in Australia in the 1960’s. My dad was an engineer and spent some happy years commuting from Adelaide to Woomera working on inertial navigation systems for the Blue Steel cruise missiles. Keep up the good work Kurtis and greatly appreciate the articles you and your good lady put out each Friday.
Wow what gem. I served my apprenticeship at NSWGR workshop at Cardiff near Newcastle,starting in 1963. In a controlled atmosphere room was the “Genevoise Jig Borer”. I’m not sure what size it was but to a 15yo apprentice it looked huge. I remember the operator showing me the optical centre finder, at the time I was totally amazed. What an absolute goldmine of tooling and accesories and that documentation is worth its weight in gold, priceless. In this day of CNC, machines like this are cast aside, I’m glad to see it go to someone who appreciates quality machinery Phil from EVLE
The Company I used to work for had 6 of these same machine tools lined up side by side in a wood planked, air conditioned, humidity controlled room. The outside wall that faced the street was glass so if you passed by you could see all the Master Machinists in white coats making parts on the SIPs. Yes those were the days…..
I think I’d have to find the smallest part I could find that needed just one hole drilled. I’d set up the small part on the table, put a few clamps on it. Setup the drill. Make a big deal about the setup. Talk about the bit I’d be using to drill the hole. Talk about the right kind of coolant. Discuss the spindle speed and plunge rate. This would be for the sake of a funny article to put onto YouTube.
I have been in metrology for over 50 years recently retired. We rated the Sip as the best machine of its kind in the world. 30 years with Starrett; 10 with Mitutoyo and 10 in other areas of metrology. I believe the plug in scope is an auto Collimator to check flatness. We used them to measure surface plate flatness. Great article, and happy to be retired. Keep up the great job as you enter into real accuracy in machining. My best sir.
Great article, its always nice to see such a beautiful machine getting looked after, one of the guys from my work sent me this! We actually have a Hydroptic 8P in our workshop, the machine is incredible and invaluable for us. For the technology included even for a 60 year old machine is mind blowing. I also personally own a SIP mp-5 1920s jig borer that I have in my home shop. The only part driven is the spindle (it actually has a double spindle, mt3 & mt2, side by side) all axis are hand wound so it can get tiring.
0.001 mm = 4/100,000 in. That’s unbelievable accuracy for such a large machine! I would think the expansion/contraction of the machine with temperature would be significant at those tolerances. Do they have to be run in a temperature-controlled room? And what about heating of the workpiece from the cutting operation? Wear of the tool during machining?
That gray electrical thing from the can is a metal-paper capacitor. Most likely, this is installed in the starting circuit of one of the electric motors. This is a pretty solid item. I don’t think it can break in this century.) And that measuring thing with a wire and a plug looks like an autocollimator – something like an optical ruler to control straightness or equal height. It should also have a mirror in the kit or a spotting scope, depending on the design. This is a piece of genius in its simplicity and accuracy.
The object you didn’t know what it was at 24 minutes is a tool for adjusting the light that illuminates the glass scale it make the line on the scale finer. I ran one for 10 years it was the best job I ever had. The machine I ran was set up for inches and with the bulbs adjusted properly you can easily split .0001
Bit late to the party, but after perusal this great presentation, it reminded me of my 17 years jig boring after 5 years of toolmaking here in England! Used a Newall for 15 years and a SIP for the last 2 years boring final ops on Airbus 320 engine Pylons in Titanium. Both were very good,accurate machines, the N an open bed and the SIP a bridge like this example, but smaller! They do however really need good temperature controlled rooms for the best accuracy, 20c ideally! I’m sure you’ve sorted all this by now! Good work, from good knowledge! Cheers
As my non machinist friends would say “that is quite a effing fancy drill press!!” That is a builtiful machine you have. Great that you got all the bits and pieces with it. At my last place of work they always got two copies of all the manuals and parts books etc. One for on the factory floor and one for the engineering office. Cheers for the overview
What a great find. Lovingly used for years and the saga continues. The tooling was a great score. Was not long ago that rooms full of engineers created our world. I built a shop for a company for 30 years. Sadly that too went by the wayside. Great to see a real connoisseur of the trade. Keep up the good work young man.
Very nice machine. I love how original it still is. Somebody looked after that machine and paid attention to details. These machines are amazing and deserve to be looked after. Keep up the great work and keep educating people along the way. Thank you for all the great content you created. Ts always fun and interesting to watch
I very much appreciate the level of skill, detail, and care you and your wife put into every aspect of all you do. Unfortunately today there seems to be fewer people all the time who take such pride in their craft. To watch you both work so hard to make these articles and spend so much time to bring everyone into your shop is incredible. This machine is incredible really appreciate you taking the time to show it to us. Can’t wait to see it in action. God Bless you and yours.
This is awesome. I hope you are able to find any tools or info you need on the machine. I really enjoy seeing how these machines work. Although I know I would never be able to make full use of the SIP I am very happy to have seen it here an look forward to your experience making full use of it. Thanks for sharing and helping to make us smarter every day!
Can I just say you two are just an awesome team it must be hard to get the technical information across in your articles one to get it out of your brain on camera (No Pressure!). Then to take all those articles and present them in an amazing way keep up the great work. For me my dad used to be a fitter and turner he did his apprenticeship with Rolls Royce in the 60s . He really had trouble getting the information across to me on his trade I feel like your article help me to understand in a more general way and sometimes I get to watch one of your articles with him it can really get him going with the technical information over my head at times. So I guess I am trying to say thank you it must be hard at times I have some understanding but I really enjoy them keep up the great work. PS I wonder if you might inspire more people into the trade ?
Спасибо, посмотрел Ваше видео с любовью и ностальгией. Давно, в середине 70-х годов прошлого века я работал на координатно-расточном станке производства ГДР. Он был не таким большим в сравнении с тем, что представили зрителям Вы, работать на нем можно было сидя, но сопоставимым с ним по количеству операций, регулировок и количеству комплектующей периферии. Работа на таком станке, это увлекательное дело, приносящее удовольствие и удовлетворение. Удачи Вам в постижении новой для Вас техники.)
Worked as maintenance tech for Dowty Fuel Systems many many moons ago looking after their Dixi 75’s and still have nightmares about them. The CNC ‘brains’ were the size of four large filing cabinets, packed with 20 inch square circuit boards covered in discrete logic chips and used punched tape storage. Control console cabinet had big thumb size buttons with a nixie tube display and it would read the glass scale using a vacuum tube TV camera!
Gday Kurtis and Karen, what an awesome machine and to get a lot of the original accessories with is a massive bonus, mind blowing the size and how much accuracy can be achieved, I can’t imagine what this would have been worth brand new in the 70s, interesting how the stored the spare part and to be in new condition without and sign of corrosion is bloody unreal, SIP took a lot of pride that’s for sure, thanks for sharing this, throughly enjoyed, have a great weekend mate, Cheers
Not used a big jig borer like that in awhile! Good find. Sadly they are nearly impossible to get running perfectly true again after being moved, but good luck! 👍 We had two where I did my apprenticeship, both in the most awkward positions they could possibly be, but noone dared move them as they had been in the same spot for 50 years or more.
I guess from what you’ve said that the SIP Jig Borer was once owned by the Government Aircraft Factories (GAF) based at Fishermans Bend, Melbourne in Victoria. GAF was reorganized in 1987 and renamed Aerospace Technologies of Australia (ASTA). ASTA was purchased by Rockwell International, which in turn was purchased by Boeing! See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Aircraft_Factories#Demise Looking forward to perusal you use the machine.
These old machines from the slide-rule days are always fascinating. You get so much manual control of the precision. What’s the process for recertification of a machine like this like after moving it? I’m talking about the precision measurements, not the hydraulics or mechanical stuff. Though, I guess in this case the measurements are mechanical, aren’t they? Back in the day I worked in a CNC shop and they moved one to a new building across the yard and had a guy come in and do what the steward called “re-certifying it”. I should have asked more questions, but back then I was shop labour and was afraid to get yelled at for gabbing instead of working.
I used to run a Moore jig bore occasionally in the job shop I worked at. I was a certified tool and die maker and always loved running the old machines when we did one off build to print jobs. Later the shop became a strictly production CNC shop. I became the programmer of our lathe department. It was fun to learn but I never enjoyed it like I did doing one off jobs on manual machines. I taught machining labs at a local community college for 4 years or so. It was sad seeing the enrollment decrease every semester. It got so low they did away with many classes and didn’t need any adjunct teachers anymore. Glad to see some of my best students are now at top jobs in the area.
You’ve got a nice machine, need a article to see it operating on a project. You are lucky to have the manuals and schematics that go with the machine. I sold and repaired machinery and power tools for 40 years. I enjoyed going to auctions to buy equipment and to find out when I received it, the manuals and or schematics were with them. When selling power tools or machinery you can get a higher price because of this. Can’t wait to see your new machine in motion. Sam from Quincy, Massachusetts. U.S.A.
The first company I ever worked for when I was fifteen had one of these machines. It was treated like the holy grail of precision, and had its own little glass room to protect it from temperature and humidity variations. I wonder if the operators are still out there? “Dickie” Wood and Lance Shacklady were the men. Does anyone know them?
Wow! One micron (uM) precision for a machine like that. It took many years for the electronics industry to achieve that precision with early Integrated Circuits – using Photo-Lithography. Now, of course, they are still pushing the wire with 3 nano-metre precision – not something folks in your engineering discipline will ever need to match methinks. So much gadgetry that came with your machine. Fascinating. Nowadays I suspect some of the electrical spares you found are as rare as rocking-horse-shit, although replacing with modern equivalents should not be a problem if the need arises.
The tolerances of that machine are insane! Even if it has slop in the ball screws or keyways, it would achieve 1000x or more the tolerance our 4k CO2 Mazak lasers or worse yet, Whitney punch plasmas have. Actually, we have one Mazak getting new ball screws and keyways as we speak. As far as the Whitney 4400XP, there is so much slop you have to put parts through a jig to be sure they pass. It’s sad. If we are talking machining only, I feel the most accurate thing we have is our one Mazak super speed lathe, but even than it couldn’t hold a candle to this. And this thing is over 60 years old!
We have the 6a but ours has a massive electrical cabinet 7ft tall and 5ft wide and weights in at 700kg and when you open it up and see the old style contactors it funny when you see a modern equivalent, ours has a power draw bar and when it gets warm you can’t always get the tool out and you have to be a bit brutal with it. We brought ours off the people that we subcontracted the work to due to them retiring the sadest part was they had an 8 and couldn’t find a buyer and after a year of trying it ended up in the sea as an anchor and at the time scrap prices were low 🤦♂️☹️, the best thing you can do is get a dro fitted then you will get the best out of it, the tips that go in the boring heads are a absolute pain in the ass to get hold of luckily we had loads of spare tools but we are nearly out. It’s not often you see new articles of guys getting pre cnc machines it seems now a days 5 axis and mind blowing feeds is the go to but jig boring is a totally different speed. Happy days 👍👍
I have absolutely no need for this machine but I still want one. Well no immediate need however I would find a way to use it. I absolutely love old machines. If I had the money I would have an entire warehouse full of machines that people could use for various projects. Hate seeing them just sitting or worse yet in the scrap yard.
Interesting article. Thank you. Impressive machine. Swiss kit is always special. The missus is definitely the boss of you 🙂 BUT please tell her, with all due respect, that the permanently mounted guns on the HMAS Vampire comprise the primary and secondary armament. An arsenal is a place where weapons (and other military kit) are made and repaired. A modern arsenal will also have a warehouse and distribution centre. The word comes from the Arabic for ‘making house’. Have a good week. I am looking forward to seeing the SIP making money for you.
I am now 85 years old and as an apprentice under guidance from the Chief Inspector at Cockatoo Dockyard, was given the responsibility of installing a 30 foot long Swiss jig borer in the machine shop in 1958. The accuracy guaranteed was .0001″ and the borer was isolated from workshop vibration by being set in rubber. I don’t know who obtained this machine when the Dockyard closed in 1992, but you can still clearly see where it was originally placed. As I recall, the purchase price then was £33,000(A)
Awesome machine. Love it. Swiss quality is probably only equaled by Japanese. I must admit I wonder about the economics of your operation. Not only one purchase after another, but also the work involved to get them in working order, let alone the learning curve. Even if you get a machine for scrap metal price often they can sit around for a long time because of other priorities. The more machines you have, the more they sit idle and your overhead grows anyway. I know you work hard but you must be getting paid top dollar for this to all add up. I see a parallel with Abom79.
What a trip down memory lane! What a treasure! I worked on one just like that in the mid-60’s with a major aerospace company here in the U.S. I apprenticed in tool & die and wound up working on the SIP. Truly amazing machines. When you get everything cleaned up and sorted out, you’ll have a VERY valuable piece of equipment for your company but remember… they’re built like a tank, but treat them gently. I was young then and now I’m old, but I clearly remember what a joy they were to work with. Treasure it and take care of it.
Obviously looking way ahead when you bought this, & an indication of much finer work projects, I hope all goes well for you Curtiss, it’s a great pleasure for me on the odd tea break to observe your skills & dogged pursuits & solutions. All heavy going at present, but ya’ never know what’s round the corner.
Yes those were what every top notch tool and die shop had to have back in the day I spent 10 years on a Sip 3K at one of my jobs earlier in my career as a toolmaker the sip I ran was a smaller version of yours the locational accuracy was .0002 and was kept in a climate controlled room, brings back good memories, thanks .
Incredible machine. Spare a thought for the engineers and designers, not to mention the people that actually made it. So glad it’s gone to a good home, where it will get used. not like so many other old machines destined for the scrap pile. Like a kid in a sweet shop opening those boxes. Great article.
i just discovered your awesome website! SUBSCRIBED! Dude, you have some banging skills and brains! Hey love your dog, lots of energy that one! Whats his name? Your wife’s voice sounds sweet, I’m guessing she is your talented camerawoman? Love to see her, maybe playing with the doggo in a shot. You are blessed 😀
I hope you can find a good use for the machine, there are very few in use that have not been converted to CNC in the US. I use a smaller style of jig bore sometimes called a C type, with yours being a bridge type. The use I found for the machine is repairing power transfer cases, gear boxes, hydraulic pumps, motorcycle crankcases. Spun-out bearing pockets. The machine can measure to the high accuracy it cuts, so it can map out parts, mirror image for multiple dowel pins. Have fun with it!