Hunter abilities are abilities used by hunters, with most being shared between all specializations, while some are specific to one or two specializations. Hunter abilities are classified as spells, as they benefit from spell damage gear. Some Hunter abilities are considered “magic damage” but not considered a “spell”.
In World of Warcraft: The War Within, most Hunter abilities are counted as physical, and even though they cost mana, they are not counted as spells and are not affected by +dmg, or silence. Arcane Shot, for example, deals magic damage but is not considered a spell and gains no benefit from +spell damage, spell hit, or spell crit.
Every ability, power, or spell belongs to one of seven magic schools, which define what can be done to absorb, immunize against, or resist it. In the new 2024 DnD 5e rules, Hunter’s Mark works in the new 2024 DnD 5e rules.
Arcane Shot is not considered a spell and gains no benefit from +spell damage, spell hit, or spell crit. It is believed that running a spell power Hunter is far superior (+100 DPS) than attack power gear. However, this theory is not intended and should be considered in the context of Hunter abilities and talents on Classic servers.
📹 Hunter’s Mark is suboptimal in D&D 5E
Hunter’s mark isn’t a good spell mechanically or mathamatic when you are heavily relying on it. You have better things to cast.
What counts as a spell MTG?
In Magic the Gathering (MTG), a spell is any card cast by a player, usually from their hand, but can also be cast from other areas of the battlefield, such as the library or graveyard. Land cards are not considered a spell. During a game, players take actions such as tapping and untapping their cards, casting spells, and attacking/blocking with creatures. Tapping a card means turning it sideways to show it has been used for the turn, such as using a land for mana, attacking with a creature, or activating an ability with a symbol. Tapping a card requires untapping it to use it again. To cast a spell, players must pay its mana cost by tapping lands or other permanents to make the required amount and type of mana.
What isn’t considered a spell in MTG?
In MTG, a spell is any card cast by a player, usually from their hand, but can also be cast from other areas of the battlefield, such as the library or graveyard. Land cards are not considered a spell. During a game, players will take actions such as tapping and untapping their cards, casting spells, and attacking/blocking with creatures. Tapping and untapping are crucial for indicating that a card has been used for the turn, such as using a land for mana, attacking with a creature, or activating an ability with a symbol.
To cast a spell, players must pay its mana cost by tapping lands or other permanents to make the required amount and type of mana. For example, to cast Serra Angel, players could tap three basic lands of any type plus two Plains.
What is considered a spell in WoW?
A spell can be defined as a magical incantation or effect created by game developers and modeled after fantasy, myth, and legend. Such spells may result in a variety of effects, including damage, healing, the enhancement of friendly characters, or the debilitation of hostile mobs. The term “spell” is distinguished from “ability” and “power” in the World of Warcraft wiki. The usage of these terms varies depending on the game in question, with different games within the Warcraft franchise employing them in different ways.
Are abilities considered spells?
Activated and triggered abilities on the stack are not spells and cannot be countered by effects that specifically counter abilities. Static abilities, which don’t use the stack, cannot be countered at all. Ability categories include spell abilities, activated abilities, triggered abilities, and static abilities. Some activated or triggered abilities are also mana abilities, while some static abilities are evasion abilities or characteristic-defining abilities.
Some abilities may be indicated by a keyword, and certain card types grant intrinsic abilities. Each separate ability of a card is listed on a different line, functioning independently of each other. Removing abilities is not common, but removing creature abilities falls under White and Blue’s color pie.
Do hunters use spell power?
Hunters have the option of utilizing the majority of spell damage gear that clothiers can, which may potentially allow them to achieve high spell damage.
What counts as spell?
A spell is a card that has been cast and placed on the stack, or a copy of another spell. It is only a spell when on the stack, and in most other zones, it is simply a card or a permanent when on the battlefield. All card types, except lands, are types of spells, and even permanent cards are typically cast as spells before becoming permanents. Spells exist as game objects, and their rules determine interactions and effects between the casting of the spell and its taking effect. A copy of a spell is also a spell, even if it doesn’t have a card associated with it.
Do spell like abilities count as spells?
Spell-like abilities are magical abilities that work like spells but have no verbal, somatic, focus, or material components. They usually have a limit on how often they can be used, with constant spell-like abilities having no use limit. Using all other spell-like abilities is standard, and using them provokes attacks of opportunity. A concentration check can be attempted to use them defensively and avoid provoking attacks. Spell-like abilities cannot be used to counterspell or counterspelled.
For creatures with spell-like abilities, the designated caster level defines how difficult it is to dispel their effects and any level-dependent variables. The caster level doesn’t affect which spell-like abilities the creature has, but sometimes it is lower than the level a spellcasting character would need to cast the spell of the same name. If no caster level is specified, the caster level is equal to the creature’s Hit Dice.
Some spell-like abilities duplicate spells that work differently when cast by characters of different classes. A monster’s spell-like abilities are presumed to be sorcerer/wizard versions, but if the spell is not a sorcerer/wizard spell, it defaults to cleric, druid, bard, paladin, or ranger.
Does Hunters Mark count as a spell?
A creature is marked as your quarry by a spell, which can be a successful tracking creature, a possession, or a sight within 90 feet. The creature must be alive or on the same plane of existence as you, and the spell can be maintained for another 24-hour period by casting the spell again before the duration expires. If the creature is no longer alive or on the same plane, the spell fails and you do not expend a spell slot. You can have multiple creatures marked at once up to your spellcasting ability modifier.
A bonus action is to choose a creature and mystically mark it as your quarry. The target is marked until it dies or is on a different plane of existence from you. Until the mark ends, you deal an extra 1d6 damage to the target and have an advantage on any Wisdom or Perception check.
What counts as a spell 5e?
A spell is a discrete magical effect that shapes the magical energies in the multiverse into a specific expression. It involves a character carefully plucking at invisible strands of raw magic, placing them in a specific pattern, setting them vibrating, and releasing them to unleash the desired effect. Spells can be versatile tools, weapons, or protective wards, dealing damage, imposing conditions, draining life energy, and restoring life to the dead. Thousands of spells have been created over the multiverse’s history, many of which are long forgotten or may be recorded in ancient ruins or the minds of dead gods.
What counts as spells?
A spell is a card that has been cast and placed on the stack, or a copy of another spell. It is only a spell when on the stack, and in most other zones, it is simply a card or a permanent when on the battlefield. All card types, except lands, are types of spells, and even permanent cards are typically cast as spells before becoming permanents. Spells exist as game objects, and their rules determine interactions and effects between the casting of the spell and its taking effect. A copy of a spell is also a spell, even if it doesn’t have a card associated with it.
Why can t Hunter use magic?
Hunter, a grimwalker, was given a staff by his uncle, Emperor Belos, who he considers a “genius teen prodigy” due to the powerful artificial magic it commands. During a mission to obtain palismen, the staff ended up with Luz, who used it to keep Hunter unarmed and return it for better use in their plan to thwart Kikimora. Hunter has several abilities, including telekinesis, teleportation, creation magic, energy blasts, water magic, earth magic, and flight.
He can telekinetically move objects and individuals without touching them, teleport like Emperor Belos, create a sword out of thin air, shoot energy blasts, travel underwater, control sand and dirt, and fly like witches. Hunter’s abilities are a testament to his power and versatility, making him a formidable adversary in the battle against Kikimora.
📹 How Hunters use Spell Damage in TBC Classic – Spell Hunter still exists!
Turns out Volley and Wyvern Sting still scale with Spell Damage even though most other stuff scaled with AP nowadays. Also …
Me, who only didn’t take Hunter’s mark on my Beast-Master ranger because I need my BA: “well this is a fortunate coincidence”. BTW Aid is now on the ranger list with Thasha’s expanded spell lists, not exactly going to singe-handedly win combat but it is one of my favorite spells and +5 max hp is pretty nice.
One problem with your calculations is the assumption of every character being able to take a feat at character creation. I mean, sure. That is the power build way to do it, but if you don’t have that hunters mark will be useful for those early levels simply because one cast can be used for a long time.
The Longbow has a small niche over a hand crossbow due to it having a significantly higher range and it’s an option for Ranger builds who want to use their Bonus Action for something else. Also, Crossbows shoot bolts, so they can’t make use of Slaying Arrows if you happen to find any. However nothing stops your ranger from using more than a single type of weapon.
I wouldn’t say that the ranger spell list is bad. Rather, it just isn’t as damage oriented as one might expect from a martial class. If you approach their spell list with some creative plans though, a lot of the spells become real stand out items. No familiar? No problem. You’ve got speak with animals and animal friendship. Practically any beast in the game is yours to befriend. As you pointed out in the flight article, many monsters struggle with combatants that can escape their melee range. Great news for the ranger because they’ve got Longstrider, jump, and zephyr strike all at first level slots. A 15 foot vertical leap onto a roof or tree branch can leave your opponents seeking alternate targets.
I don’t think it’s as cut-and-dry as the math suggests. The opportunity cost of casting hunter’s mark is a 1st-level slot you could have used to cast something better, no doubt. The opportunity cost for taking a BA shot with crossbow expert is an entire feat, and a commitment to shooting hand crossbows your entire adventuring career. Maybe that’s a price you’re ecstatic to pay, but it’s by no means cheaper than a 1st level slot you can replace daily.
This is the problem with ‘white room’ balancing. Hunter’s Mark is consistent, direct and available no matter what. It’s powerful because not everyone wants to play a custom lineage crossbow expert gloomstalker or insist on a house ruled version of Conjure Animals. You can’t kill it with AoE, you can use it with any weapon, and it combos well with the way most fights are set up in game: with a ‘boss’ and their minions. Most importantly, it doesn’t require an additional attack or proc a save. For a half caster who is already MAD this is significant. This also ties in to your point about the druid spell list. Many druid spells are much more powerful on a druid, because they can afford a higher spell save DC. Another reason I find this reductive is that your examples imply a false dichotomy. Yes, crossbow expert and hunter’s mark have anti-synergy when used together against multiple opponents with low health, and those are a common threat. But they have very strong synergy against single opponents with a lot of health, especially ones with medium to low AC. You can simply choose not to cast Hunter’s Mark in situations where it isn’t as relevant. I know you titled this article as you did for a reason. You’re not claiming that Hunter’s Mark is a bad spell, just not always the best choice, and I definitely agree. However, I think you’re generalising a little too much in your examples and the claims you make. Hunter’s Mark remains one of the best ranger spells, and probably always will.
i use hunters mark pretty regularly on my rangers but i like to think of my ranger spells kinda like stances. hunters mark is a stance that buffs the damage of all of my attacks so i rapid fire as many attacks as i can, zephyr strike is a stance that grants mobility and burst and lets me hit several weak targets in one round and so on. hunters mark is useful because once you get the ball rolling a level 5 ranger can get an extra 3d6 damage per round and if you’re going through a dungeon you can utilize the same hunters mark for several encounters. hunters mark becomes even better if you get the drop on your opponent, marking them before they even know you’re there means it doesn’t even cost one of your bonus actions in the combat.
Out of curiosity, I did the math for Hunter’s Mark vs Conjure Animals(9th-level ranger with a dip in cleric for HW), just to laugh at it even more. It turns out concentrating on CA and using your bonus action to Healing Word the enemy every turn is 17.9% more effective in terms of damage than concentrating on HM. I assumed the summoned creatures did not have Pack Tactics and had +4 to hit/1d4+2 damage.
I’ve been currently playing a Swarmkeeper Ranger in a campaign, and I’ve been genuinely enjoying a lot more once I ditched Hunter’s Mark for other spell options. As a Swarmkeeper Ranger I get for free Faerie Fire, which supports my entire team with advantage against an enemy, and after reaching level 5 I also learned Summon Beast, which I admit isn’t an incredible spell but for me it is genuinely fun in terms of flavor. You see, why did I pick all these things for my build? I wanted to make a Ranger based around someone which could talk to and conjure spirits from the wilderness, and that’s why I love summon beasts as a spell, plus the damage output at that level is quite decent in my taste. Although I’m still waiting for Conjure Animals to come to me, because that’s where the real fun begins.
I played a fey wanderer ranger for a while, but she was wisdom focused with druidic warrior and shillelagh – great for spellcasting and being up close for melee. Hunter’s mark would have been BEYOND suboptimal for this build, and it would have meant I couldn’t use my concentration and bonus actions for other spells that require it like zephr strike and searing smite (thank you tasha’s for this spell), which do WONDERS for melee rangers, not to mention the once a round psychic damage from dreadful strikes – basically infinite favored foe, but it caps at a d6 and is always psychic damage (though that is good for magic resistance). Rangers are so commonly overlooked man, and it’s shit like the idea with hunters mark that make it like that
The problem is Rangers spells are mostly Concentation spells, Hunters Mark result in you locking in 1 hour of concentation. Alot of powerful Druid spells aren’t part of Rangers list. As you show yourself, you listed nothing but concentation spells and Good Berry, Good Berry easily being Rangers best spell to the point that it’s kinda overpowered.
In your example you say that the two rangers (one with CBE and one with HM) have the same equipment. But why? Why do you ignore the fact that the ranger using HM is able to use any weapon they choose, like a heavy crossbow for example? Meanwhile the other ranger is stuck with a hand crossbow. Edit: On top of that the ranger without CBE has another feat. Where did that go? Completely likely they have a higher dex modifier doe to a half-feat, which makes them more likely to hit and do more damage. I’m sorry but all this article does is says that shooting a crossbow does more than a d6 of damage. But you completely ignore the price of shooting that crossbow.
Comparing Hunter’s Mark to Conjure Animals is suboptimal. 60% of games don’t go higher than level 8 or 9, 30% don’t go past 14, and the remaining 10% will go higher with a sliver heading to 20. But for the first 8 levels, you won’t have Conjure Animals. For the first 4, you won’t have Pass Without Trace, and even then that spell is only useful in 60% of situations, and only in round one. For instance, you can’t rely on that spell if you’re entering rooms where the enemy is facing that entrance, which happens more often than you think. Hunter’s Mark can last an entire encounter in comparison, and is obtained at 2nd level. It might not compare in round 1 numbers, but its consistency outweighs its limited damage.
The CBE, Hand Crossbow argument is fine, but that build is currently weak in a bit over 1/3 of our fights in two campaigns I’m in. Those fight initiate well beyond a hand crossbows optimal range, so now you are waiting until 4th or 8th level when you also have Sharpshooter, and not taking any Dexterity bump. In one of those campaigns also the enemies have morale and often run and flee, so Hunter’s Mark can help in tracking them down if done within the hour. Still a very outside the norm case. I agree Hunter’s Mark isn’t worth it 95% of the time, but most of the other spells listed go against Pack Tactics phrase “damage now is better than damage later” since few of the other spells he lists as being options are damage spells, almost all of them cost an action, so you are then deciding not to attack that round, so you’ve already decided on null damage from your ranger on turn 1. Entangle and others are great spells and often the right play, but using that phrase for Hunter’s Mark and then making your suggestions of what to do instead being no damage turn 1 instead comes off as hypocritical. As was written in big red letters at 4:07, “You always lose dpr on the first round” if you don’t attack.
Okay okay I was one of the non believers at the beginning of the article but I can see why in the scenarios you’ve mentioned its not worth it. One of my DMs often has us going through really really long dungeons with dozens of encounters so its extremely regular for me to carry Hunter’s Mark or Hex from fight to fight. Compared to tangled vines or fog cloud only getting use in one fight. (but maybe it is just my baise of rolling dice goes brrrrrrr) Thing that you didn’t mention that did have me confused though was picking up Crossbow Expert means you picked up a feat instead of increasing you’re Dex but we weren’t accounting for the extra +1 damage/ +1 to hit per attack that Ranger has. I assume.
Okay, small comment here; I think Entangle is a single-target spell. It grabs one guy (“A creature in the area”) and vines up the surrounding area, making it difficult terrain. Other area-of-effect disables use the language “Each creature in the area”, not “a creature in the area”. Given that 5e’s natural language is complete horseshit, I wouldn’t be particularly surprised to find this interpretation is wrong, but it certainly seems single-target to me.
This question should be analysed and answered level by level and what will you do before having the famous feat. Remember you can swap spell at each level so taking and later removing HM is possible. It is important to take into account disadvantage on the handcrossbow shoot due to long range (9m or more) or the danger of beeing at ennemy close range, the ammo avalaible quantity on the long run. It is also important to identify the population of ennemy you face depending on your DM style (one big guy or swarming kobold).
See it’s cool, the problem i have with min/maxing is that it requires a lot of metagame and/or creates metas that make stuff boring, you will always have to pick crossbow and crossbow expert, always play gloomstalker and that’s not fun- besides I’ve seen people pointing here that “it’s good to track BBEG who always escape” then the counter argument being “use entangle” and then someone points that a villain who always escapes would have teleport/misty step kinda spells, and the counter argument being “half of the enemies in the book don’t have” how would your character know that? It kills the fun because always winning isn’t fun, having a character who is always deciding things because of the rules is boring as hell, i can get behind the idea of cool builds and such, but extremes like this aren’t fun
The only issue is getting your hands on a magical hand crossbow. If you need to bypass damage resistance you’ll either have to hope the dm hand placed you a tailored magic weapon or you’ll have to use a 2nd level slot and concentration just to use magic weapon. Magical bows have the advantage of actually existing in the printed modules
Overall good content. I agree that HM is not the best spell to concentrate on when you have things like Entangle or even Favored Foe. I do have some (hopefully) constructive criticism: One, I feel like reflavoring crossbow as a bow when real bow exists is a toe too far. Like, it’s not criminal, it’s just… it felt like reflavor to justify optimization instead of narrative. The second is that for a character build to be a ranged shooter, a hand crossbow short range may not be optimal. 30 feet is a bit too close for comfort for sniper build. Even accounting with your movement, its still a distance an enemy can get close to you in one go. All in all, i agree HM is a suboptimal choice, but I think it still has a spot in some builds as a suboptimal reliable friend XD Cheers!.
I can’t begin to remember the last time I played a character who’s main stat was 16. Even using regular point buy you can bring it up to 17 by level 4 you can take it to an 18 at least. I rarely play with anything less than a 19 or 20 in my main stat. After 7 years of playing this game, that has always been the case. A ranger with a 20 in dex and the ranged fighting style has a +10 to hit by level 5. If you’re a ranger missing your shots, you are either using sharp shooter, or the dice gods are really fucking against you that day.
It always did look funny from the moment I started playing ranger in my second campaign… I never understood why everyone encouraged wasting a spell slot thats 3.5 damage only if you actually hit… and if I’m a two weapon ranger, that bonus action is for my other weapon. Why waste my bonus action to waste a spell slot on a wasted spell known?
Pack Tactics: “Hunter’s Mark is suboptimal.” Expert Classes UA: And I took that personally (if you haven’t seen it, rangers can cast Hunter’s Mark without concentration, their 18th level feature increases Hunter’s Mark damage, and the Hunter subclass gives you bonuses for having Hunter’s Mark active)
I think zephyr strike is an underrated ranger spell due to the fact that it’s a buff to yourself, you get advantage to your attacks, 1d8 FORCE damage, plus 30 feet to your speed, and you don’t get opportunity attacked. While the last one is a nice bonus if you’re fighting something with high speed and it catches up to you, the other buffs are just absolutely insane. Almost nothing resist force damage and it’s a better dice than hunter’s mark, you get advantage to all attack rolls, and you practically double your speed.
If you’re using any kind of two handed bow, you can shoot the hand crossbow every other turn because you need to stow the hcb in order to use the longbow on your next turn, which then prevents you from using it to attack that turn. Other then that, yeah hcb is better for melee rangers, but then its just better to go twf and ignore the feat tax.
hunters mark does also have utility as well. Not all enemy’s will want to fight to the death, if they have a sense of self preservation then someone will want to run away eventually, at which point if you have hunters mark on them you can have an easier time tracking them back to their secret base. Or if your hunting for food, you have an easier time not loosening your prey. Sure they are niche uses, but extra utility.
First: I have to thank you for reminding me of the “Flavor is free” bit, it will help me greatly with a future article Second: Hey Pack, i am using your gloomstalker build in one table and the GM nerfed Goodberry (i can not give it to downed allies and it’s implied that eating more than one at time have side effects). Any other spell recommendation to compensate for this loss in healing? ( i am planning to multiclass into cleric after level 9, any domain recommendations too?)
I did some math because I wanted to cross-check the numbers here and it looks like the build you lay out is suboptimal for Kobolds until 12th level, at which point it surpasses the other options, and it’s worse for other races. Sharpshooter is the real standout here too, especially with kobolds but also on everyone else. After 12th level SS+CBE overtakes every option except for SS+CBE+HM, but at that point you likely have better things to do with your concentration. There are two important points here, both of which I would love to see a article about: feats are not free, and always find something to do with your Bonus Action. Having a +3 modifier at level 8 means hitting 10% less often and losing 2 points of damage per attack relative to taking straight ASIs. While they aren’t exciting the numerical benefit of 5% more damage because of 5% more hits cannot be underestimated, and most feats don’t beat that 5% test. Because of that 5% increase, Hunter’s mark outperforms every other option except HM+CBE (which is even more resource intensive and has the juggling problems you highlight) until 12th level, at which point you should be taking a feat because you can’t get a 22 Dex. Kobolds are an exception to this rule because of pack tactics, but mathematically CBE still underperforms relative to SS until t3 play. That said, if you aren’t consistently doing something with your bonus action, you are leaving damage on the table. Whether it’s hunter’s mark to add 1d6 to your 2 attacks or CBE to do 1d6+dex, do something to add utility or DPR.
i think this is a rigid view of hunter’s mark as well as using it sub-optimally. i would use hunter’s mark on a bbeg that could possibly live to a 2nd round. i wouldn’t use it on minions. i would use cbe on minions (though i ask why kill minions in the 1st place, let the blaster/controller handle it. as a striker the bbeg, is the 1st priority). at lower levels and in a vaccum (pure ranger), i agree hunter’s mark is worse than cbe. once you get to higher levels and multiclassing though or taking subclasses like gloomstalker (who gives you advantage so that dmg is higher than what you projected as accuracy is higher), hunter’s mark starts to pull ahead. this is even more relevant for the popular fighter/gloomstalker/assassin multiclass (highly regarded as the best martial nova in the game). lets say at level 10: action: extra attackx2 + dread ambusher action surge: extra attackx2 + dread ambusher bonus action? if i use cbe, it deals lower burst dmg overall (the whole point of a gloomstalker). it’ll most likely be 1d6+4 + any magic weapon bonus. as auto-crit that’s 2d6+4. let’s say we picked up sharpshooter then that’s 2d6+10. average dmg of 17 from your bonus action. hunter’s mark on the other hand will be 2d6 per attack that hits so that’s 42 dmg on average. even if we didn’t get surprise, that’s still 21 average dmg. way above 17. even if we add in favored foe, that’s just 19.5. let’s factor in enemy ac of 18. 75% chance to hit without sharpshooter or advantage. with sharpshooter that’s 50% chance to hit.
I agree with most of this, but if you add action surge to the mix HM is great, for a short campaign I make a Battle Master with 3 levels in Gloom stalker. So when the DM presents the bbeg to show us how strong he was we kill him in 1 round. The wizard hasted me beforehand so at the 1st turn of combat I make 3 attacks as the first action, 3 as action surge, 2 as haste. All because dread ambush, all with extra d6 for HM, also dump all the maneuvers. Sharpshooter in 8 attacks, elven accuracy, 2 crits. So the liche drops.
It does appear that Hex/HM sounds like it’s sub-optimal on a straight warlock or Ranger build respectively, but I would love to hear your thoughts on using either of these spells on a multiclass build that can incorporate 3 or more hits per turn, like a monk using flurry of blows. Surely an additional 6d6 (beyond normal damage) over the course of two turns has to be very beneficial. But maybe the math proves me wrong?
I would like to propose the “Granger” in honor of my Giff Thaddeus. A ranger with a gun can be quite nice with hunter’s mark at earlier levels. With non crossbow options you aren’t using a bonus action anyways so you might as well use it to enhance your attack. At level 3 with the Hunter subclass, on hit that is a d12, a d8, and a d6 with hunters mark. Not to mention the occasional crit can really pop off when you are rolling that many dice. Obviously better options open up with higher level spell slots, but it can be a very nice addition to the early levels.
HM can be worthwhile against a big sack of hit points. Your example against mooks is correct but not the whole story. Gloom stalkers get dread ambush anyway so the additional attack evens out the BA setup. And on following turn, an extra 3d6 is nothing to scoff at. Echoing the comment that you can’t feed a good berry to unconscious allies. Whereas healing word can do that from range for a BA. Finally, the Ranger spell list can be useful in a vacuum, but compared to what full casters are doing at the same PC level, it quickly becomes diminishing returns. That said, you can get a lot of mileage with Zephyr Strike, which is a criminally underrated spell.
If I am using hunters mark I’m not using crossbow expert. Sharpshooter maybe, but far more likely, I just increased my dex. All the same, if my ASIs don’t buy feats as a ranger, then I’ll have gotten my wisdom at least to 16 fast, and my favorite combat spell at level 1 is ensnaring strike or zephyr strike, Level 2 summon beast, level 3 lightning arrow, level 4 conjure woodland beings, level 5 swift quiver. But hunters mark is a good option, for a one spell per combat play style, when you are using a longbow and not a hand crossbow
The druid spell list ranger has acess is alright early but it becomes trash due to how spellcasting scales, crossbow expert costs a feat, and those are not free especialy without a free feat at lvl 1, also druid list is good for how soon you get the spells rangers get most too late and they lack choice
Im using hunters mark in a gloom stalker rogue setup. Hiding with cloak elvenkind as a bonus Action for tripple advantage from elven accuracy which allows for crit fishing. As i start combat out of stealth i can then simply use hunters mark round 1 and start nova damage and hide before whenever I attack. Due to the way crit works hunters mark really starts to pay off.
Looking over the action economy and wording of Crossbow Expert, Ammunition, Bonus Actions, and Object Interaction, you’d effectively need to juggle your main weapon to pull it off. Or in other words you’d need to Attack (Sheath), Bonus Action one turn then, Bonus Action, Attack (Draw) the second. So you’d have to make all your Primary Attacks together before or after using your Hand Crossbow, and would have to mirror that the second turn (do the opposite), so there is a minor limitation.
Welcome to a new episode of,,in the very specific case of a very specific min/max that thing is worse than this.” Okay. Sarcasm aside. You cant use crossbow-expert except you have two different artificer infusing both of you crossbows, except you want to draw a new one every time you used the old one. And thats an absurd amount of crossbows. (Reason: while holding a crossbow in each hand, you can not reload. And thats not only a logical conclusion, its a rule.) Additionally: while crossbow-expert is highly recommended, when min/maxing the ranger its a FEAT while Hunters Mark ist only a spell. Also: its completely possible to apply hunters mark before combat starts. Additionally some DMs will not allow you to reflafor a weapon, because it makes the world in general a bit unlogical. (1: Same bows, do more damage. Why? 2: Some of the reloading rules wouldnt make sense either.) And please note: most DMs I have seen (and I include myself her) just ban goodberry sooner, or late, because it causes so many balancing-issues. And dont say,,but thats a houserule”. As soon as a majority of experienced people use it, it doesnt make sense to think with the original rulesset, when nearly everyone uses a different one. And the reson the druid-list is good, is the fact, that you get much more spellslots much earlier combined with the fact, that you are not MAD. Everything depends on the situation. Youre breakdowns are so highly generalized, that not pointing out, how thats the AVERAGE and in a minority of cases (maybe even a not so small one) things can be different, is just ignoring facts.
I set the article to 1.25 times speed and now it just sounds like a normal person talking. D: Send help! Also, this doesn’t seem to account for crit, which benefits Hunter’s Mark more heavily than Crossbow Expert by way of higher to-hit chance with ASI and bigger damage dice when they do land. The numbers are much closer, and may favor Hunter’s Mark in a few situations. That said, at the cost of a spell slot AND concentration, it’s definitely not worth it. Plus, Favored Foe causes it to win out regardless, when it’s available for use. This is compelling. I’m compelled. I think I would rarely use it if I played a Ranger.
You call it suboptimal because the math of a crossbow expert is better in nearly all situations, I call it suboptimal because people don’t know how to get 12d6 out of it in the first round of combat at level 10 like I do. We are not the same. All jokes aside, taking 2 levels in ranger to get the spell can be very worth for any other martial class (other than barbarian/rogue/paladin) that can get their hands on it, notably the fighter with the con save prof, specifically if you go one more for the subclass dip. Edit: You can also do feats for fey touched to pick it up as a feat at level 1.
The minute your explanation included the phrase ‘with Crossbow Expert’ you lost the credibility right there. CBE is a Feat. Some DMs don’t allow Feats. Only VHumans can get Feats during creation. Your whole argument is predicated on a specific race using a choice that they may not get. Oh, and if your Ranger later multiclasses into a Fighter for Action Surge then on the turn they use HM they’re getting 70% chance of an additional D6 four times (assuming additional attack) instead of two.
Well it is true with CBE only if you fight small creatures which have low hp. Anytime you fight something that is bulkier lets say 70-80 hp on lower level, hunter’s mark is optimal since you can go sharpshooter, CBE. It is bonus 2d6 as you checked you out dpr just CBE after 1 round in every round. If you parry this with extra attack it is 3d6 bonus dmg in every next round and if we want to go to ever higher levels and take 2 levels in fighter it is up to 5d6 extra damage. Edit: Also hunter’s mark doesn’t start a combat so technically you can use it even before starting the combat and then it really shines same as hex in hexblade warlock which can cast it before combat. We know how his song and dance goes if somebody takes’ “bastard combo”.
I found a use for it. Gave a Fighter character with a longbow this spell via feat from Tasha’s. And at 20th lvl, when combined with Champion’s 18+ crit, Elven Accuracy’s 3d20 keep top Advantage, that gives a 37% chance to crit, and with action surge that’s EIGHT arrows getting an extra 1d6 damage, and with advantage 2-3 of them are critical hits, so either +28 damage (+14/rd without Action Surge) at 100% hits (likely at 20th at anything below AC 20), or +38.5 damage with action surge (19 without) when advantage is there. So, NO, “Hunter’s Mark” is not always a “Never cast!!!”
The problem with Hunter’s Mark is that it’s a consentration, which makes it literally unusable. Dropping all other consentration effects for a potential 2d6 is silly, especially when Zephyr Strike is flatout better in 95% of the situations. From level 5-17 you have Spiked Groth, Lightning Arrow, Guardian of Nature and Swift Quiver which are all incredibly powerful spells and ALL are consentration spells. Add to them with Zephyr Strike and Favored foe, it is NEVER worth to cast Hunter’s Mark.
multiclass of Ranger and monk? I’ve heard that unarmed attacks DO count as “weapon attacks”. lvl 5 monk and 3 ranger for colossus slayer and fighting style dueling = 2 attacks 2d6+static+2*2 and flurry of blows 2d6+static+2*2 AND 1d8 per turn from colossus slayer. except on first turn you cast BA hunters mark. doesn’t seem that bad to me
Is the damage of Crossbow expert not almost entirely made void by simply increasing your DEX? Between staying on Longbow and having an 18 DEX, you individual attack averages 2 more damage at a higher plus to hit. The 2D8 + 8 is 17 while 3D6 + 6 is only 16.5, and even if you miss once a turn, you’re either doing 8.5 on longbow or 11 on crossbows. That may sound favorable for the Crossbow, but the crossbow is being forced to use its action EVERY turn to maintain a meager 2.5 damage lead, one the Longbow can spend on basically any for of damage supplement. This article works off the bad-faith assumption that Crossbow Master is better than the alternatives, and the conversation falls further apart from there. Up until now I have yet to factor in Faovred Foe. This is for multiple reasons. First, Favored Foe is symmetrical between these two builds, and the only way one gets ahead of the other is if you miss 2 attacks in a row, but don’t miss your 3rd attack with the hand crossbow. Second, it is a very limited and minor ability. It can only be put on 2-6 creatures MAX over a whole day, unlike Hunter’s mark which you could move once you’ve killed the enemy. Realistically Hunter’s Mark and Favored enemy could be competing for space, but the value of having both is that it lets you be more liberal with one or the other. More importantly, if you need a lot of turns to shuffle your Hunter’s mark, you’re also burning through Favored Foe at equally quick speeds. Every level before 5 will favor Favored Foe, but the difference is small, and while it may be better to use FF for the first 2 enemies you see, HM then does more damage for only one spell slot.
A longbow with hunter’s mark and extra attack does 2d8+2d6+6 damage or 15.4 damage on average. A hand crossbow with no hunter’s mark and crossbow expert deals 3d6+9 damage or 13.65 damage on average. And crossbow expert isn’t free instead you could have gotten a +1 to your attack modifier and damage. So that brings the longbow hunter’s mark build to 2d8+2d6+8 or 18 damage per round. That’s an increase of 4.35 damage per turn, plus it frees up your bonus action on turns where your target is still alive.
On the vacuous ground of statistics things like this article seems plausible, but they aren’t you completely omits the fact that you can change HM targets once you killed the first, for 1 hour you can sustain a passive mark that aids you, and can help track a marked foe on the run. I’m not saying that hunter’s mark should be used and abused, i’m no powergaming, i use zephyr strike with fog cloud to GTFO of the frontlines, entangle and enhance ability are my favorites tbh, but one thing is to put HEX and H’M on the same boat as useless spells as things like True Strike (i know you didn’t named TS on the article, but the way you sound in the article gives me the same impression). TL;DR: Hunter’s Mark is a reliable, consistent source of DPR that sustains and pays itself by its duration (1 hour in-game on combat sessions is a really long time, ngl) IT CAN COMPLEMENT WITH CBE because if your target is dead, eventually you’ll have a loosen up opportunity to use your extra bonus attack as a bonus action, i know only crunching the averages is fun, but most o the time this don’t actually reflect on real campaigns.
Yea i do believe the issue here is 100% with you comparing HM+hand crossbow vs Feat(CBE)+handcrossbow. I cannot figure out how exactly you arrived at those numbers but i am certain your HM character did not get an additional ASI (or sharpshooter?) over the CBE user. The issue is not with HM its with the use of CBE + SS as the only valid way to run literally anything. espc thanks to Custom lin and Vuman existing this has become an absolute plague.
So as a player I agree with most of this, thanks to the favored foe HM becomes basically useless, especially at higher levels. Lots of good spells to replace that HM slot with. However as a DM I disagree with the “flavor is free” thing. I let player flavor weapons all the time, but I will never let my player reflavor a hand crossbow (one handed ranged weapon) into any kind of normal bow as, no matter how you slice it, to fire a bow you need two appendages, be it hands, feet, talons whatever. Even with that though everything else is quite good.
So…..Hunters Mark is just better in the long run, if you run into more chonky enemies, the best option is to hunters mark, then start going to town with crossbow expert Lets imagine the ranger is 5th level and has crossbow expert, using a heavy crossbow and a hand crossbow and uses the Favored foe feature In two turns, the damage will be 4d10+2d6+2d4+6*modifier If the same ranger cast hunters mark the previous turn 4d10+4d6+5*modifier And it only goes up for the hunters mark user And on that note, i have never really seen fog clouds and other things like that be at all effective in combats that were against stronger enemies, if you fight regular kobolds and use hunters mark, yeah, you’re a dumbass, but just not taking advantage of the consistent good damage from hunters mark is just bad Either way, 99% of more powerful enemies will always save against the spells
I do agree with your point generally, but your argument isn’t the best. A lot of the comparison is based on low level rangers. You assuming access to feats (when its a variant rule at that) at level 2 before any class has gotten an Ability Score increase implies that they have the option at character creation. Crossbow Expert does come out ahead, but at lower levels, where most of D&D is played, the 2 are close and there aren’t many other level 1level spells for rangers in combat. I played Ranger the first time I played D&D. Of course my build won’t be optimized, but I really felt like I was losing out on damage without hunter’s mark. I was a Level 3 Horizon Walker Ranger (our DM liked to start at level 3 so everyone could have a subclass. The only spells I had were Cure Wounds, Absorb Elements, Hunter’s Mark, and Protection from Evil and Good (from subclass). If I remember correctly, the only other concentration spells that would have been available would have been Beast Bond, Detect Magic, Detect Poison and Disease, and Fog Cloud. I didn’t have a way to charm a Beast, so it was out, Detect Magic was good, but I had such a large group, that I assumed one of the full casters could spare a slot for Detect Magic, Detect Poison and Disease seemed niche and irrelevant to the campaign, and Fog Cloud confused me when I saw it since I didn’t know the rules for vision, though I did see utility in it. In that situation, I picked Hunter’s Mark. It had what I thought was good damage and even tracking utility.
I’m 6th level totem warrior barbarian and 3rd level hunter conclave ranger. I use hunters mark along side colossus slayer. I also took the two weapon fighting style and the dual wielder feat. In one attack I can attack three times. Multi attack plus bonus action offhand attack. I have a +1 battle axe in my dominant hand and a +2 blood spear in my off hand. I can do up to 3d8 + 2d6 + 10(12 if favored enemy) in a turn. Plus my hunters mark and colossus slayer increases my chance to kill with my blood spear meaning I can potentially heal myself for 2d6 damage per turn. That works out pretty sweet when fighting several enemies that are relatively weak compared to me. Like the session I just played in which we were fighting dozens of twig, needle, and vine blights
I dont think Hunter’s Mark is THAT bad, its VERY good when you are actually using it as intended, which is to say, a tracking and monitoring ability when leading into an ambush, an extra 1d6+1d4 per attack (Favored Foe) on the opening round of an attack is excellent, an enemy caster will just die usually and advantage on perception and tracking lets you continue to track a high threat target and if you need more control on a fight, you just drop the mark and cast away. Though I will admit, it is a significantly worse choice with each caster/half-caster you dont have in a party and is just a straight up worse hex (imposing disadvantage on your choice of ability checks is always better than advantage on PER+WIS checks vs one target).
Wait, isn’t this the exact opposite argument you made for Smite? If most fights take 4/6 rounds and you make up the damage on round 2 then it seems like Hunter’s Mark is just way more efficient and you still have your spell slots for emergency heals anyways. If you’re fighting a particularly tough enemy then having a move that just stays up forever and does bonus damage is super good, especially if you’re getting it off two or even three times a round. Alternatively, with something like Ensnaring Strike, you need to invest in Wisdom as well as Strength or Dex to get the full effect. So not only do you need to get the attack roll, you then need to also use your bonus action and you have to get the save off, which just adds even more unreliability to things. And with something like Hail of Thorns, you’re still using that same bonus action to do just one hit of 1d10 damage IF YOU SUCCEED and then the spell’s over, meaning that potentially valuable healing slot is just gone now. That’s the thing, not only can Hunter’s Mark hit more than once per turn, but it also is way more efficient because it recycles itself without needing a ton of Wisdom investment, meaning you have more points to use for Con to bulk up your character. Sure, at second level or higher you get stuff like Conjure Beast or Conjure Animal, which are arguably better just because of the action economy and tactical advantages, but even then if you have boosted Dex then you might just end up out-damaging your beast or animals anyways because they’re scaling on spell level, not on your stats.
(Hunters mark) or basically the same spell of (hex’s) is only good if you are not a ranger or spell caster. Spell caster, even the 1/2 castes have better things to use concentration on. Magic initiate for a fighter or monk is a decent option. What does a monk or fighter use their bonus action or concentration on? The answer is nothing or not much. The fighter get 2 extra ASI & this is a cheap way to up damage. You might mistakenly think barbarian, but concentration is dropped when raging which makes it useless.
these calculations assume you take Crossbow expert instead of an ASI increase at level 4. It its 100% true that Crossbow expert out performs hunters mark longbow when the Ability score is the same. But when you have a 18 dex, hunters mark, longbow vs 16 dex, handcrossbow, favored foe you get the following numbers. 2x(d6+d8+4) with 70% chance to hit vs 3x (d6+3) with 65% chance to hit + (1d4)*(1-0.65)^3. This means the DPR of the ASI bulid is 17.6 the DPR of the Crossbow expert build is 15.73 I am NOT saying that hunter’s mark is good. I am Not saying that it consumes your bonus action and concentration. I am saying that creating guides like this can result in players creating characters that underperform. By all means if you rolled for stats and have a 20 dex get crossbow expert it will increase you damage. If you are a higher level and are looking at a way to increase you damage, or remove disadvantage in melee range grab the feat. If you have SS, xbow expert and 20 dex your going to have a good time. But especially for early levels granting feats to a build in often detrimental when compared to ASIs. edit The calculations @5:13 give SS and crossbow expert vs 1 ASI and crossbow expert. this assumes a feat at level 1, which can be done with custom lineage or variant human so yes I grant that a feat build with SS + Crossbow expert + 16 dex + favored foe does beat a 18 dex, hunters mark. however Eleven accuracy is not available to custom lineage or variant human and is by far one of the best DPR increases that you can take if you have a way of getting advantage, like say.
I’m sorry but from 5th level onwards, HM really catches up on not using HM, even if you have CBE. If you don’t, you don’t have another BA anyways, so nothing competes HM’s action economy. Let’s assume the 70% hit chance, on a 6th level V.Human ranger with 18 Dex and CBE as their starting feat. Round 1: With HM: The ranger makes 2 attacks with a 70% hit chance, 1d6+1d6+4 damage each. If at least one of them hits (so a 1-(30%^2) proc-chance), he deals an extra 1d6 damage. So in total, he deals: 2 * 0.7 * (3.5+3.5+4) + (1-(0.3^2)) * 3.5 which equals 18.585 With CBE BA: The ranger makes 3 attacks with a 70% hit chance, 1d6+4 damage each. If at least one of them hits (so a 1-(30%^3) proc-chance), he deals an extra 1d6 damage. So in total, he deals: 3 * 0.7 * (3.5+4) + (1-(0.3^3)) * 3.5 which equals 19.155 Not using HM puts you ahead by 0.57 average damage on the first round. HOWEVER, on subsequent rounds, HM gives you a 3 * 70% * 1d6 bonus, for an average of +7.35, so over 2 rounds, you’ve dealt 6.78 more damage on average.
If I may, while this puts to words the gripes I’ve been feeling perusal my ranger player only cast hunter’s mark 99% of the time, so he never “gets” to use any of his spells. I wanted to approach this with two tweaks. 1) Change Ranger spell casting to “prepared” instead of learned with hunter’s mark as an “Always Prepared Spell” that does not count against your total (This is more to have the narrative of a ranger literally “preparing” for the day based upon what they anticipate they might need when out adventuring.) 2) How absolutely broken would it be if, instead of favored foe as is, it allowed for the ability to cast hunter’s mark without requiring a spell slot nor concentration up to a number of times per long rest equal to their ranger level (however a Hunter’s Mark cast this way cannot be transferred to a new target)? It might be homebrewiing a bit too forcefully, but I just want to see my player feel like they can use their other spells sometime aside from the occasional zephyr strike or healing spirit.
What if you want to play melee ranger? Favored foe is an optional rule. Your whole premise for this article is biased based on the idea that rangers should use ranged weapons. Having a ranger with a finesse weapon, shield, and dueling fighting style, with hunters mark and colossus slayer is still a great combo. I reject you’re concept just on the grounds that it is too specific.
But Hunter’s Mark actual point is tracking and chasing, not killing. Just like Hex is for locking enemies down with an ally. They are actually utility spells. Not using them as utilities is dumb. Hunting a pack of gobos that you know will bolt as soon as the fight starts? Hunter’s Mark. Fighting a creature that grapples and then decimates? Hex Strength. The extra damage is “nice”, but ignoring their other features is like ignoring that fog cloud obscures vision. (Btw if you are decimating wolves in a fog cloud your dms are being very nice to you. Wolves would know were you are and packtactics or flanking would negate any benefits you would get from that. Web would be better spent on those.)
I always see everyone comparing things to Crossbow Expert, but I don’t ever see anything else brought up as an alternative. The complaint always seems to be “This is suboptimal compared to CBE so you shouldn’t use it.” But CBE is such a weird niche character choice in my opinion, you really have to be meta-crafting for maximum theoretical damage to choose CBE for more than about 5% of character concepts. Why is this the go-to for delegitimizing all other features in the game? Sure, Hunter’s mark is not your best use of a bonus action or spell slot at higher levels, but there is nothing other than CBE that outright renders Hunter’s Mark moot at low levels, and no spell at higher levels is an outright better casting choice in all contexts, so unless you’re a swashbuckling ranger, just use Hunter’s Mark until you have better options and then keep it in your back pocket. Let’s all agree to move on from worshipping that silly feat and embrace other options for what they are. They make the game more fun. You FEEL better as a ranger using up a bonus action to get more damage on an opponent each round through mystic ranger expertise (the flavor of ranger’s spellcasting) especially when you’re at a level where you don’t have anything else to do with that bonus action; compared to “I attack, and also I also attack again also” literally every turn.
Bad math lol. Because by the time you’re conjuring animals (even tho I ban it at my table because it is a badly designed spell) the DPR and AC of enemies just makes them kind of meat sacks. Like the odds any creature you can summon can hit anything is pretty slim, then you’ve wasted a 3rd level spell. Also, if you are talking DPR optimization, sure we can have a discussion, but hunter’s mark gives advantage on tracking. That means it is basically an auto success. In terms of strategic advantage, you can hit a creature with a longbow from 600 feet away (longer with some feats) then let it run and catch up to it. And you can say that is not useful, but I can just say that is table dependent.
I get why people would want the most optimal builds and strats for DnD. They play and prob see DnD differently from me. I like combat and tactics to an extent, but there’s more to the game like rp, story, world building. Not saying u can’t do both. But I like having sub optimal characters to play. But yeah, nice math and strats. It’s useful and insightful
Why aren’t you precasting HM on a creature, say a spider in a jar of spiders, killing said creature and then using your silent HM while you’re stealthed to setup an attack b4 combat begins? All of which is allowed by RAW, and if you’re going to argue RAI, then HM should simply not require you to sacrifice a chicken in order to have a free 1d6 on every attack. That being said sometimes other spells can be beneficial and that’s where the real argument is.
Goodberry is not the best healing spell in the game. (Fine it is, but only because it takes no slots to heal a lot and other people can use it to heal people including you) Spell Level 1 yes it’s the best no arguements. Even a 20 wis healer will be at 9.5 average with cure wounds instead of 10 (or 40 if you dip life cleric) Spell Level 2. It’s dropping fast. an average cure wounds is 9+wis, at least 1, so even if this is a 13 wis caster, cure wounds tied in healing which can be done in combat. The life cleric dip is up to 50 damage. Spell Level 3. This is where it starts to fail miserably. Even with a life cleric dip, or a life cleric with a druid dip to get the spell, level 3 is 60HP for a slot vs 70 for anyone doing aura. 120 for a life cleric doing aura of vitality, 140 for a sorcerer doing aura of vitality (Or a cleric with the feat that gives 2 sorcery points and 2 meta magic options) This could be a 240 point heal if it’s a life cleric dip or life cleric with sorcery points to pull that off. Spell level 4. 70 HP, it’s up to aura of vitality from the worst possible aura of vitality caster, but they get this too, and there’s several ways to improve aura of vitality, so… I’m sure you can see where this is going. The one thing good berry actually does better is at night before a rest, dump all your remaining spell slots into making good berries. Those are going to last 24 hours so all day the next day giving you lots of healing that doesn’t take any spell slots or resources.
“Flavor is Free” I like this, but there is a point where it is taken too far. Taking Crossbows and Crossbow Feats then to describe them as bows? No. Bows are further down the page my friend. Would you dual wield daggers and fluff it as wielding a great sword? I respect the time and energy put into the math and presentation, but I found that particular bit to be overly dismissive. Worse it comes off as mechanical cherry picking; “I follow these rule, but the rules about different equipment are optional”. Thanks for the article.
the sw5e equivalent is called Target Lock, and it’s far more useful in that game. it has all the same crunch as Hunter’s Mark, but the tracking part is swapped out for ignoring half and three-quarters cover (and one quarter, new mechanic) and the target doesn’t benefit from being invisible against you. obviously if you have something else to do with your bonus action like the Mechanist’s ionic pulse or Sharpshooter Style’s mark ability then it’s going to be a better use than target lock for pure damage, but cover has been expanded and a lot more creatures can turn invisible from my experience.
Personally I prefer Zephyr Strike, though it is only based around 1/round it isn’t target based, increases your movement and removes attacks of opportunity based upon your movement. Which is just superior in my eyes, especially as a ranged weapons user who likely won’t have crossbow expert early on, allowing you to out maneuver and stay out of threat in melee, while always giving a 1d8 provided you hit at least once in a turn.
people using it wrong doesn’t mean its a bad spell… most of the examples were newbie or straight up combat examples. an additional d6 to damage to every attack is never suboptimal, its like turning a shortsword into a great sword. Also constraining character creation concepts to one that takes a feat at 1st is super limiting… Where’s the fun of playing DnD if we are limited to THAT ONE power build idea? Nothing is suboptimal if its put to good use even character flavor.
The mistake is using a bow. Using a greatsword youve got 9.95 dmg/rnd with mark even assuming you don’t use the fear on something else. Hunters mark is for the far superior melee ranger. (Also works in AoO and other ways to gain extra reaction attacks)… though still probably better off with other spells unless you have spare slots for some reason
My opinion, suboptimal is dumb. Play how you wanna play. I played a strength based melee hunter ranger with a longsword, and I loved this spell. I got to roll 1d10, 1d8, and 1d6 on alot of my attacks. It was great for rushing down single enemies and bashing them into the ground. The only times i didn’t use this was when using either healing spirit or conjure animals.
Played a druid with telekinesis bc the dm said, “grab a free feat, nothings banned.. but try not to take lucky” so I figured, “hmm, how can I weaponize my bonus action in a way I never have” so I casted spike growth on some oversized charging velociraptors. the second they tried running through the spikes, I casted entangle, and used my bonus action to essentially make a blender. That and the warlock teamed up with me for some pushing eldritch blasts that turned our opponents into mist in literally less than a full round of combat. less than 6 seconds. Damage solves sure, but get even slightly creative with how you can use your actions and self combo to be invincible.
Sure the hand crossbow does more damage than mark, but it takes a hand, meaning you can’t use two handed weapons like bows or crossbows, which you just took a feat for. Also doesn’t crossbow expert only trigger off weapon attacks? Meaning you can’t use it when casting a spell. A hand and a feat slot to do more damage, once per round seems a bit more equal in efficiency, than this article suggests. Unless you go dual hand crossbow and say best of both worlds
hunters mark is phenomenal if you have nothing else to do. why not play a mark of finding human fighter? cast it, attack then action surge. without any subclasses adding extra damage that’s whatever weapon dice you are times 4 +4d6 damage at lvl 5. also if ur tracking a guy who is trying to hide from you this works wonders. i think this is good with every subclass but rune knight
I’m actually playing a lizardfolk ranger in a campaign right now, and will not be using hunter’s mark. We are choosing single schools of magic for any casters, and get access to all of that schools spells for free when they are accessible by level. I have chosen transmutation as my school, so do not have access to HM unless I want to pay for it, which I don’t currently have any plans to.
Thanks for talking about this, I have been building a Tasha’s Ranger Swarmkeeper and just noticed this flaw in damage. With Crossbow Expert and Sharpshooter (Both feats I plan on Taking especially as a Variant Human) assuming a +5 dex, the damage comes out to be, in order for the cost of hunters mark to come out net profit instead of using the extra bonus action to shoot someone and using sharpshooter, you would need to hit the same person approximately 7 times for a small amount of damage positive hunters mark. Glad to know Im not crazy and messing up my math, seems to be that I would rather have a different spell known and keep my slot. Thanks
I play a ranger in a campaign right now, and find myself using Hunter’s Mark quite a lot. Yes It’s mostly because I don’t have components because we never arrive at any city, and had no opportunity to collect many of them. And yes, our DM mostly throws one overpowered enemy against us with tons of HP. But against hordes, or any other threat? Not really that useful, considered you can have Goodberries, or Spike Growth(which helps a lot more), or summon wolves to act as a meat shield. I must say though, that Hunter’s Mark is mandatory for a kind of character who specializes in killing big tough monsters/enemies – like sniper, or monster hunter. AKA for roleplay purposes. P.S. Pls, don’t hurt D6. He’s a good boy, and if you do, then a lot of rogues are going to come for your soul.
This spell can be useful for a samurai fighter. Like they can perform 11 attacks in one turn and get a bonus of 11d6 from hunters mark. Especially if they get crusher with gives advantage after a crit with elvin accuracy. Give than pole arm master and you get another fighting beside two weapon fighting and get dueling for bonus 2 per attack.
This all seems like good advice. But I’d really like to run a longbow. Is there any benefit to making a longbow build or will I be putting myself at a disadvantage. Here’s the benefits I’m seeing: greater range so more opportunities to be a sniper. No need for cbe so I can pick different feats at 8th level. And greater damage and a freed up bonus action for spells and hiding. My idea is to be running the new ua thri kreen race and use it’s extra 2 arms to carry short swords and get an ac boost from dual wielder or instead use defensive duelist to defend myself in melee. But it seems like it’s be more optimal overall to run a shield in one main hand and use my other hand to hold a hand crossbow and still have 2 free hands to load my crossbow. Thoughts? Note: secondary arms cannot hold anything other than a light weapon. So main arms can only hold a shield
Honestly I’ve only cast Hunter’s Mark once in my entire time playing a ranger. so a bit of context: everyone in our group has a homebrew magic item. we were in a cave fighting goblins when a treasure goblin appears. I succeed in my save against it stealing my arrows+1 that I purchased with gold(yay). meanwhile our Paladin failed and had his homebrew item stolen from him(No!!!!!) now then we were in a bit of a predicament because it was a mobile little thing. so I decided to cast Hunter’s mark just in case it escaped. lucky for our paladin it didn’t escape but I felt it was a good idea at the time anyways. Edit: I feel I should’ve mentioned that my weapon of choice is a longbow and that I’m a drow gloomstalker ranger.
“until you lose your concentration (as if you were concentrating on a spell)” seems to imply that favored foe is still concentration so the quote from the beginning still hasn’t really been answered but I think it’s up to interpretation I don’t really agree with that comment, but it isn’t really addressed that if favored foe means you can’t concentrate on other spells it doesn’t really change what they were saying just replace hunter’s mark with favored foe, and if favored foe isn’t concentration then hunter’s mark is probably still good because I’m not sure why you wouldn’t be able to use both basically I think its a good article it just doesn’t address the fact that between favored foe or hunter’s mark concentration is being used so isn’t really comparing the concentration spells to hunter’s mark/favored foe
the main point I disagree with is when you say “we avoided initiative which is the best thing that can happen” A lot of players make their characters for combat, and combat is their favourite part. An avoided combat is a bummer for many people. Same goes for control spells. Control spells are good at ending encounters and I constantly see people say that “casters are better because they end encounters so fast”. Yea. Maybe if your goal is to have the least amount of fun possible. How is having a caster use something like banishment to avoid a fight with an extraplanar entity at all fun. How is a caster using hold monster to paralyze a big boss leading to everyone else not having to deal with its mechanics and just mindlessly whacking away its hp until the fight ends fun. That is like the least possible fun way to play D&D. You don’t win at D&D by finishing combats as fast as possible, you win at D&D by having fun. Its like the only pillar on which D&D was made. Fighting monsters organically is fun.
hunters mark is a situational spell. if a large, singular monster is there, hunters mark is worth it, and same if we’ll need to track the foe, or have been tracking them. it’s also a really potent spell for monks with fey-touched, as they’re able to make a lot of use from it. I’ve personally added the ritual tag to the Hunters’ Mark spell, so if the ranger has found some tracks for the foe, they can cast hunters’ mark as a ritual, targeting that creature, and it’s automatically upcast when cast that way, and my rangers have found it a blast to play with.
It’s good when in an ambush situation, which makes sense for a hunter. Combine the extra 1d6 with an extra attack from crossbow master plus advantage from being hidden and you have reasonably good low level alpha to start off a surprise round which remains a passive +1d6 for the rest of the fight or until you either lose concentration or determine that another concentration spell is needed. Attacking at least twice a round and with a 50% chance to hit means you rack up on average 1d6 extra damage per round, so in six rounds of combat it comes to 6d6 average. It’s not a perfect solution to every combat. but it can be good if you put yourself into the right situation to use it, and a ranger has all the tools to put themselves into that situation.
I would add though that hunters mark has good usefulness outside of combat for doing what it says in the name which is hunt. If a creature you are fighting is a flight risk then upcasting hunter’s mark is a great way to make sure you’ll be able to find them again. It’s a niche use but useful if you ever need it. Especially since you don’t need to be in combat to get this benefit. If there is an NPC that you need to follow discreetly then you can hunter’s mark them from a distance and then follow them by making skill checks and you don’t need to burn a 4th level slot of on locate creature and pray they don’t get too far away or cross a river. Also if you do end up engaging that creature in a fight then you already have the extra d6 damage in place without burning action economy. It’s almost as if the spell was designed for hunting an enemy down and not just as a combat damage boost
I have a friend who re-did hunters so first, it’s not a spell but a class ability. Second it deals bonus damage that scales with level so at level one you deal an additional 1d4 and at level 20 you deal an additional 1d12. At first you use a bonus action to use this feature like rage and at around 11th you can do it for free. And finally you have advantage on tracking and can learn either a damage vulnerability, resistance, or immunity
I’m currently playing a Horizon Walker, and Planar Warrior is great because while you might have something better to do with your bonus action, it’s basically an all-caps announcement that you don’t have to take Hunter’s Mark. More than half of the Ranger spell list is concentration, you gotta keep your options open.
Late to the party but I think there is something missing. Rangers do have a pretty good spell list but unlike druids; most rangers will be getting Dex to 18/20 not Wis. So while they may have good spells their spell save DC will always be lower than spellcasters. Hunter’s Mark can be very good in certain builds. I have a Ranger (Gloomstalker)/ Rogue (Assasin) build who crits when they strike a supprised enemy (and have advantage on the first round of combat if there are ahead to the target in initiative). With dread ambusher from Gloomstalker they get 3 attacks in the first round. Meaning my hits with advantage crit on supprise that is 6 d6 (21 points of damage on average at the cost of a lv 1 spell). I also plan on dipping 3 or 4 levels in fighter so an action surge on the 1st round brings it to 31.5 points of damage on average if all attacks hit (very possible with a +12 to attack rolls with advantage). Builds like this make the hand crossbow less effective than hunters mark at the beginning of combat. I get what you are saying that the spell is not a requirement for ranger and there are other great options, but it can be absolutely brutal with the right build and the ranger spells that require a spell save will never be as effective as a full caster, and there a few things worse than when you waste your turn because an enemy passed your DC 14 spell save. Also crossbow expert takes a feat (a very precious slot).