The Whole Sign House system is the oldest form of house division, dating back to the Hellenistic period. It takes the entire span of the zodiac and is based on the concept that each of the 12 signs represents a house. This system is considered one of the simplest and oldest house division methods, dating back to ancient times.
The first house, often known as the first house, is often unveiled. The Equal House system, another ancient house system, is thought to have roots in Hellenistic astrology, practiced around the Mediterranean from the 3rd century BC. The Porphyry house system, another ancient house system, is based on quadrants, with each quadrant of the ecliptic divided into three equal parts between the four angles.
The Alcabitius House System, named after 10th-century Arabic astrologer Alcabitius, is another ancient house system. Named after the 10th-century Arabic astrologer, Alcabitius, this system was also used in ancient Hellenistic and Indian astrology.
The Whole Sign House system is the oldest and most popular form of house division, having been used in ancient Hellenistic and Indian astrology for about a thousand years after its inception. Its concept is simple: each of the 12 signs represents a house of self.
Overall, the Whole Sign House system is a significant part of the astrological tradition and remains the preferred method for determining houses for about a thousand years.
📹 Are Whole Sign Houses the Oldest House System?
Details about the debates regarding house systems that are often overlooked. Other tutorial videos mentioned in this video and …
What is the 1st rarest zodiac?
Ophiuchus, the ‘Serpent-bearer’, is sometimes suggested in sidereal astrology as a 13th astrological sign in addition to the 12 signs of the tropical zodiac. The constellation Ophiuchus is located behind the Sun from November 29 to December 18. The idea of a 13-sign zodiac originated in 1970 with Steven Schmidt’s suggestion of a 14-sign zodiac, including Cetus as a sign. Walter Berg and Mark Yazaki promulgated a 13-sign zodiac in 1995, which gained popularity in Japan, where Ophiuchus is known as Hebitsukai-za.
However, in sidereal and tropical astrology, a 12-sign zodiac is based on dividing the ecliptic into 12 equal parts, rather than the IAU constellation boundaries. Astrological signs do not correspond to their namesakes, especially in the tropical system where divisions are fixed relative to the equinox.
When was Placidus created?
The Placidus house system, which gained prominence in the 17th century, drew inspiration from a contentious passage in the work of Claudius Ptolemy. This discussion originated from an article on Anthony’s blog, “Why are Placidus Houses so Popular?,” which sought to examine the arguments and areas of house division within the context of the 17th century.
What is the oldest house in the world?
Kirkjubøargarður, also known as King’s Farm, is one of the oldest continuously inhabited wooden homes in the world, built in the 11th century using driftwood from Norway. The Viking farmhouse, with a turf roof, served as a Catholic episcopal residence and seminary. Bishop Erlendur penned the ‘Sheep’s Letter’ in 1298, the earliest known document created in the Faroe Islands, enacted by Duke Haakon, who later became King Haakon V of Norway.
What is the oldest house system?
The whole sign house system, also known as the “Sign-House system”, is a 30° house division system used in Hellenistic and Indian astrology. It is believed to be the oldest form of house division and may have been developed around the 1st or 2nd century BCE. The system was passed on to the Indian and early Medieval traditions of astrology, but its transmission to India from Western locales is contested.
In the Medieval period, around the 10th century, whole sign houses fell into disuse in the western tradition. By the 20th century, it was completely unknown in the western astrological community, but it was continually used in India until the 1980s and 1990s. The distinction between equal houses and whole sign houses lies in the fact that the cusp of the 1st house is the beginning of the sign that contains the ascendant, while in equal houses the degree of the ascendant is itself the cusp of the 1st house.
There is debate surrounding the claims that whole sign houses was the original form of house division and the dominant form among ancient astrologers. Some argue that it is never explicitly mentioned in the text of any ancient astrologer when explaining how to divide up the houses, while others argue that it breaks with principles of primary motion and demotes the value of angularity.
The whole sign house movement is argued to have decontextualized Hellenistic astrological texts from those that preceded and proceeded them. In Europe, most astrologers previously associated with traditional astrology never really took up whole sign houses. Martin Gansten argues that in Valens, houses were often provisionally approximated by sign position alone, but calculation of places by degree was consistently upheld in principle as more accurate and useful.
Who invented the houses in astrology?
The Babylonians may have been the first to introduce the concept of house division, which involved timed birth according to three systems: three-part division of the night into watches, four-part division of the nychthemeron with respect to sunrise and sunset, and a twelve-part division of the day-time into hours. Babylonian astronomers studied the rising times of the signs and calculated tables of ascensions for their latitude. However, it was around the 2nd century BC that the concept of the ascendant was introduced, giving astrological houses their first recognisable structure and meaning.
The whole sign house system, also known as the “Sign-House system”, is the main system used in the Hellenistic tradition of astrology, Indian astrology, and some early traditions of Medieval astrology. The system may have been developed in the Hellenistic tradition around the 1st or 2nd century BCE, and may have passed to the Indian and early Medieval traditions of astrology.
The whole sign system fell into disuse in the western tradition around the 10th century, and by the 20th century, the system was completely unknown in the western astrological community. However, it was continually used in India until the 1980s and 1990s when it was rediscovered and reintroduced into western astrology. The distinction between equal houses and whole sign houses lies in the degree of the ascendant being itself the cusp of the first house.
What is the oldest star system in the universe?
The universe contains hundreds of billions of stars, each with unique characteristics. The oldest star in the known universe is the Methuselah star, also known as HD 140283, a subgiant star in the constellation Libra. Located near the Ophiuchus border of the Milky Way galaxy, it has a 7. 205 apparent magnitude and is around 190 light-years away from Earth. Stars are born and die through various processes, including fusion, decay, and extinction.
Which horoscope is youngest?
The annual wheel is a tool used to determine the astrological order, which progresses from Pisces to Aries. The oldest sign is Pisces, the youngest is Capricorn, and the sextile is from Sagittarius to Scorpio.
Is Vedic Astrology older?
Vedic Astrology, also known as Jyotish, is an ancient Indian system of astrology that originated thousands of years ago. It is based on the Vedas, the oldest sacred text of Hinduism, and is derived from Sanskrit, meaning the “science of light”. Vedic astrology uses the positions of stars or constellations to calculate the actual positions of planets, while Western astrology is based on the Sun’s position at the spring equinox. The use of Vedic astrology is associated with various purposes, such as predicting the future, understanding personality, and making decisions.
Key elements of Vedic astrology include nakshatras, birth charts, and planetary positions. Nakshatras represent 27 different lunar mansions associated with a specific constellation, impacting an individual’s personality and life. Birth charts represent the planetary positions at the time of birth, revealing insights about destiny, personality, strengths, and weaknesses.
What is the oldest astrology system?
Babylonian astrology is the earliest organized system of astrology, originating in the 2nd millennium BC. It is believed to have originated in the Sumerian period in the 3rd millennium BC, but the evidence of ancient celestial omens is insufficient to establish an integrated theory. The history of scholarly celestial divination is generally reported to begin with late Old Babylonian texts (c. 1800 BC) and continue through the Middle Babylonian and Middle Assyrian periods (c. 1200 BC).
By the 16th century BC, Babylonian astrology was primarily focused on weather and political matters, with astronomical symbols likely representing seasonal tasks. Astrological symbols were used as a yearly almanac of listed activities to remind communities to perform tasks appropriate to the season or weather. By the 4th century, mathematical methods had progressed enough to calculate future planetary positions with reasonable accuracy, leading to the emergence of extensive ephemerides.
Babylonian astrology developed within the context of divination, with the oldest known detailed texts of Babylonian divination dating back to around 1875 BC. These texts demonstrate the same interpretational format as celestial omen analysis, with blemishes and marks found on the liver of sacrificial animals being interpreted as symbolic signs presenting messages from the gods to the king.
Which horoscope is the oldest?
The Babylonian star catalogs entered Greek astronomy in the 4th century BC, and Hellenistic astrology was derived in part from Babylonian and Egyptian astrology. Horoscopic astrology first appeared in Ptolemaic Egypt (305 BC–30 BC), with the Dendera zodiac being the first known depiction of the classical zodiac of twelve signs. Ptolemy, an astrologer and astronomer, laid the foundation for Western horoscopic astrology through his work Tetrabiblos. Under Ptolemy, the planets, houses, and signs of the zodiac were rationalized and their function set down in a way that has changed little to the present day.
The Hindu zodiac was adopted from the Greek zodiac through communications between ancient India and the Greek empire of Bactria. The Hindu zodiac uses the sidereal coordinate system, which makes reference to fixed stars. The tropical zodiac is divided by the intersections of the ecliptic and equator, which shifts in relation to the backdrop of fixed stars at a rate of 1° every 72 years, creating the phenomenon known as precession of the equinoxes. Although the Hindu zodiac does not maintain this seasonal alignment, there are still similarities between the two systems.
The Hindu zodiac signs and corresponding Greek signs sound very different, being in Sanskrit and Greek respectively, but their symbols are nearly identical. For example, dhanu means “bow” and corresponds to Sagittarius, the “archer”, and kumbha means “water-pitcher” and corresponds to Aquarius, the “water-carrier”.
What was the first house astrology?
The 12 houses of the zodiac represent various aspects of a person’s personality. The first house, the House of Self, is ruled by Aries and Mars, providing insight into one’s outward appearance, traits, characteristics, outlook, and sense of expression. It also reveals the ways in which one’s personality may evolve in the future. The second house, the House of Value and Possessions, is ruled by Taurus and Venus, focusing on one’s possessions and internal values.
This house relates to both tangible and intangible aspects of one’s life. The third house, the House of Communication, is ruled by Gemini and Mercury, and governs how one communicates and connects with others. It encompasses both written and verbal communication styles, allowing astrologers to understand how an individual interacts with themselves, their environment, and those they know well.
📹 Steven Forrest on Using Whole Sign Houses
Steven Forrest – a big fan of Placidus houses – shares his thoughts on using the popular whole sign house system. Learn more …
It makes sense that Deobrah Houlding would have her preferences as an experienced astrologer. The professional thing may have been to simply encourage people to re-examine for themselves the various qualities of quadrant house systems. She could have combined professionalism with ethics to create a fascinating and persuasive presentation. She could have demonstrated her experiences. But using an altered recording by Schmidt that affects the context of his words and his work, snipping and rearranging other astrologers’ material to change their points when those very people encourage others to check out all house systems — doing these things strongly suggests she’s being deceptive and this discredits her. Repeatedly referring to people who use WH as “lazy” wasn’t a good look either and a bit ironic (lazy) when she glazed over the transmission piece of indian astrology who were polymaths and brilliant in their own right. It looks more like she has an ax to grind, the need to be “right” at any cost. She came off as unhinged and bigoted imo.
The argument over which house system is the oldest system is an historical question at it’s root, and has nothing to do with where we have progressed to now, or what works best now. Therefore, only the historical argument matters. Chris Brennan did an excellent job in his eight hour article dismantling Houldings argument. Houlding’s article seemed to me a personal attack, especially upon Robert Hand, as he is the only surviving Robert from Project Hindsight. (She presented herself in a petty, vicious manner, not as a dispassionate academic) When attacked, a vigorous response is called for. Kudos to Brennan. There is nothing preventing astrologers today from profoundly examining the diurnal motion of the planets, appreciating the sacred geometry of the sky, contemplating our connection to the cosmos, and fine tuning appropriate techniques for practice. I equally value yourself, your research, and the ancients upon whose shoulders we stand. ….. one last astrologer I appreciate, for opening up the whole of the sky to me is Bernadette Brady, who revived working with planets and stars in parans—-diurnal motion emphasized with rising, culminating, setting and lower culmination. We may consider both conjunctions (ecliptic) and parans (diurnal-quadrant). This is the 21st century!
Bias is the enemy of truth. It takes the form of always having to be right, caving into popular opinion and support or any additive attachment you are drawn to. To all those who have an ax to grind, remember being open minded puts you into a vulnerable position. Needing to standing up for what you think is only because you have a unbreakable connection to the next guy.
Apparently there was a Babylonian house system that predated the 12 sign, equally divided zodiac. I think that Sign Houses were the most popular for Greek astrologers, and were likely used for centuries. But if this Babylonian hepatomancy house system (and perhaps even the concept of houses themselves) really predates the zodiac signs, then we can’t really say sign houses are the oldest. Sign Houses being used by Hellenistic astrologers for use in their historical techniques developed for that house system (like profections) makes sense. But I think traditional astrologers are hoping that the old texts are closer to the original discovery / development of astrology, and therefore the most intended system for the whole practice. I’m not sure. If what I wrote above is correct, this reasoning might not work for houses. Otherwise, I understand wanting to hold to the older texts. But, similar to your focus on finding what works, and innovating on the past, when I first got into astrology, I asked what works? Do any of the house systems have studies? Well Dr. Kyösti Tarvainen shared a study in his book that found that in synastry, Whole Sign houses were very wonky and almost random, whereas Placidus and Equal houses were alright, and Koch (a house system developed in the 1960s!) was the most helpful. That was a good enough start for me. My chart is a little different in all of these systems. I’m still looking for one that reads best for me, and Equal seems to solve some of my issues but, ah!
Hello David! Thank you for the article! As you said we look more at our screens than the actual sky these days. (I’ve been wondering and still am where the signs actually are/looks like in the tropical system in a round/oval ball Earth model). I’m wondering, as an experiment, how the motion of the celestial bodies would look like in a flat model of Earth where the North Pole would be the center and the South the outer surrounding realm. No matter how the real Earth looks like, people that studied astrology saw it as flat before.
answer: C D And, in my opinion, A. love Chris Brennan, he is one of my favs. The “house debacle” recently flaring up with Deb is embarrassing, in my opinion. Honestly, I watched her entire article, also watched the more than six hours of chris responding to her statements made in said article…. Not sure what to say about it, other than, is she freaking drunk? Also, I pity those followers of her that are not DOING FURTHER RESEARCH into this. If nothing else, just deepen one’s personal knowledge and understanding within astrology, traditional, classic, medieval, modern, etc…. And then form your own opinion. Love love love all influences both past and present. Having respect for variety while choosing to not follow the same practices as someone else is honorable. Keeping historical practices unadulterated for all those that will gain an Astrology interest (no matter their level) should be of utmost importance. Live and let live. Egos need tamed. And lies need be called out and out to end. This is just my personal opinion.
Thank you. I am only in my 50s, but remember calculating charts by hand in my teens. I wished I’d known whole sign houses then! 🙂 It was at a wonderful workshop with Dr. Hand where I learned about the whole sign system. It stuck because whole signs solved a problem I was having with prediction, for myself and others. After the workshop, I started from scratch with my own chart, then added all my “usuals” in until I felt confident. That’s my practice learning most techniques – to start fresh and experiment on myself first. My Virgo ascendant deeply respects your service of cleaning up for others, yet wishes it weren’t needed. We all have Virgo somewhere in our chart where this message of loving service can take root.
I found Whole sign astrology is relevant for natal charts in most cases but found not for daily transits. That’s where Placidus works best. Best of both worlds. Either way no matter what system is used the same lessons repeats itself over and over again, each system has a different lens of seeing the same lesson.
I had a Vedic astrology reading for my natal chart, and of course a traditional Western astrology reading – many of them, in fact – and I must say that the interpretation of the Vedic chart did not differ from the interpretation of my traditional chart. Planets were in different signs and named differently, but the interpretations through Vedic astrology are sufficiently different from the meanings of things in traditional western astrology that my horoscope ended up yielding a nearly identical reading. Cannot say too much about whole-house readings because I only use that system when I am doing a solar chart w/o birth time.
This was one of my favourite speels i’ve heard on this topic. And yet, its not enough for me. Yes, once I’ve picked one, i will stick with it and trust it. But to have that trust I need to choose a system that truly resonates and be able to articulate to myself the reasons for the choice. And so, I continue seeking answers.
Greetings Mr. Forrest, I like the analogy of the different languages, in fact, I have come to this same conclusion myself just by exploring a few different types of Astrology, as well as the Vedic. At first, I found it all a little confusing, but by going deeper into it the realization comes natural, it is exactly like speaking different languages, and by the way I speak different languages already, after all the most important thing is about our connection with Source and the Universe, I agree! <3 Thank you <3 Love your books by the way and your writing style! <3
I can appreciate pick a language that works best for you but there has to be absolute truth and if you’re reading a chart according to one system or another it is drastically interpreting that situation differently and completely different conclusions will be drawn and will obviously produce entirely different results some of which better than others, so I think ultimately one needs to try out the different systems for themselves and be honest w themselves about which is producing the best readings and your honesty will guide you to the right system since honesty can only be interpreted one way and that is by the truth of the matter
Although this is a nice sentiment on Steven’s part and very politically correct as well, it’s somewhat discouraging to hear that as long as you’re kind and helpful in your readings, it doesn’t really matter which system you use! I guess I’ll just make up my own system then right! As long as I tell people what they want to hear, they’ll love me and pay me anything I ask!
Use of whole sign houses are a means of willfully denying the complexity and reality of the world down here. A naive, wishful hope for beautiful, linear symmetry which remains elusive in this world. Psychology is uneven and has many clauses and maybes, and it depends. Economics is the same. Sociology and history as well. Genuinely practiced astrology is no different. Signs are a projection of a symmetry which is as balanced as we can get. They remain ‘up there’ and inadequate to explaining the realities of what people experience in life down here. Enter house systems – Koch, Krusinski, and others. Unevenness. Assymetry. Some houses are big, some small. Some regions have ASC emphases in a cluster of signs (Cancer-Sag for northern hemisphere). Other regions favor longer sign times for other clusters. THAT is how it actually is down here. Whole sign houses vs other house systems are a version of the ideal vs real dilemma and are selling simplicity because its satisfying for a lot of people. That does not make them true. Whole sign houses are tragically inaccurate and represent an inability to deal well with complexity. Which is why they were abandoned millenia ago.