Non-class spells are treated as a class spell of 1 level higher, such as produce flame, which becomes a 2nd-level sorcerer spell. A cleric side can prepare this spell if they have the fire domain. The Spell Codex can be copied to Google Drive and colored to give it a color-coded rating.
A druid can channel stored spell energy into summoning spells that she hasn’t prepared ahead of time. She can “lose” a prepared spell to cast any summon nature’s. A sorcerer casts arcane spells drawn primarily from the sorcerer/wizard spell list and can cast any spell she knows without preparing it ahead of time. To learn or cast a spell, a ‘ring of spell knowledge’ (of second level or higher) can be added.
In Pathfinder 2e, one can learn a spell assuming they have an instructor who can teach the spell. In-game spell research can be done to create sorcerer spells that replicate particular druid spells. Another option is the nature Oracle, which allows for an animal companion and all animal summons from revelations.
Modders can create a good Druid with sorcerer-like spell abilities by adding 3 level 1 Arcane/Divine spells from the Wizard/Sorcerer, Bard/Cleric, or Druid list. In Pathfinder 2, players can learn a spell assuming they have an instructor who can teach the spell. However, the ‘Priest Scroll’ is not available when loading the game.
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What is the most powerful druid spell?
Druid 201 provides a plethora of spells for druids, encompassing a diverse range of abilities such as lightning, druidcraft, animal conjuration, primal savagery, shapechange, sunbeam, plant transport, and nature’s wrath.
How do you learn spells as a sorcerer?
You can learn an additional sorcerer spell at each level except 12th, 14th, 16th, 18th, 19th, and 20th, each of which must be of a level with spell slots. When you reach a certain level, you can choose a known sorcerer spell and replace it with another from the list, also having spell slots. Charisma is your spellcasting ability, as it relies on your ability to project your will into the world. You use Charisma when a spell refers to your spellcasting ability and when setting the saving throw DC for a sorcerer spell and making an attack roll.
Can sorcerers learn spells Pathfinder?
Starting at 1st level, a sorcerer can focus on arcane magic instead of bloodline spells and powers. They gain a learned spell every time they access a new spell level. To prepare learned spells, they need 8 hours of sleep and 1 hour of studying a spellbook. They must have ranks in Knowledge equal to the spell level to cast it. This allows them to choose an additional spell daily, but it is treated as any other spell they know. Learned sorcery replaces bloodline arcana, powers, feats, and spells, but a character can still choose a bloodline for character background and additional class skills.
Why were Druids banned?
Druid sites, such as the Isle of Ynys Mon, Anglesey, and Wistman’s Wood in Dartmoor, are believed to be Druidic sites. The complex lore of Druids, who rarely used a written language, took about 20 years to learn. The Gaul’s limited written language, involving Greek characters, was later converted to Latin by Caesar’s rule, leading to the loss of old records. Druidism faced oppression from the Romans in the 1st century AD, leading to Tiberius’ ban on it due to human sacrifices.
In the 2nd century, Druidism appeared to end due to disease, famine, or warfare, or the arrival of Christianity. However, a Druid revival occurred in England and Wales in the 1700s, with William Blake, an Arch-druid, participating. Druidry has influenced some modern religions, such as Christianity and Wicca, with the number three being considered significant in Druid lore. The Triscale, a symbol involving three lines, was key to Druid beliefs, including the circle of life, seasons, light, and darkness.
Why can’t sorcerers learn spells?
The methods of spellcasting employed by sorcerers and wizards differ. Sorcerers utilize a simple “wishing” technique, whereas wizards employ formulas and a scientific approach. It should be noted that this game may contain content that is not appropriate for all age groups. Such content may include, but is not limited to, depictions of mature themes, nudity, or sexual content. To update content preferences on Steam, users are directed to the provided link.
Can Druid do magic?
Druids were powerful beings who could summon magical fog and storms to destroy or disperse their enemies. They were known for their ability to stop enemies, such as Colmcille from crossing Loch Ness and Mathgen, who summoned the mountains of Ireland to crush them. The Celtic warrior and Irish God Dagda, Protector of Tribe, was also a Druid. In the Life of St Moling, Mothairén conjured up a fog to protect Christian missionaries from their enemies. These examples demonstrate Christian saints taking over the power of Druids.
Where do druid get their magic?
Druids were powerful primal spellcasters who gained their power through connection with nature or a powerful deity. They were guardians of the wilderness and saw themselves as an extension of the natural order. Druids were known for their mysterious nature and believed that nature’s health depended on a precarious balance. They believed that the four elements of the natural world – air, earth, fire, and water – must be prevented from gaining advantage over one another to prevent the world from becoming dominated by the forces of the elemental planes.
Druids believed that nature exists outside of civilized conceptions of good, evil, order, or chaos, seeking to maintain a natural state of being that most of the civilized world cannot or will not understand. They also violently opposed the existence of aberrations and undead, both of which were affronts to the natural order.
How do druids get spells?
Druids are held in high esteem due to their connection with the natural world and their ability to harness magical powers from either the natural world itself or from deities associated with nature. The browser in use does not support cookies, and JavaScript is either disabled or blocked.
What are the restrictions for druids in Pathfinder?
Druids are skilled in light and medium armor but are restricted from wearing metal armor. They can only wear padded, leather, or hide armor, or wooden armor that has been altered by an ironwood spell. They are proficient with shields, but must use wooden ones. Wearing prohibited armor or using a prohibited shield prevents druid spells and abilities for 24 hours. Changes to a prohibited alignment result in losing all spells and abilities, and druids cannot gain levels until they change their alignment back. Additionally, druids gain a +2 bonus on Lore (Nature) checks.
How do druids get powers?
Divine Empowerment is a practice that involves drawing strength from the divine forces of Celtic Deities to enhance one’s natural abilities and gain powers. This can be achieved through prayer, contact with relics of their power, or becoming a conduit of their energy. Druidic magic, also known as Druidic Commands or Witchcraft/Wizardry, is a broad spectrum of magical arts based on nature and faith.
Druids, who include priests, sages, magicians, seers, oracles, teachers, scientists, alchemists, occultists, judges, philosophers, royal advisers, shamans, astrologers, beast masters, and bards, are a high-ranking class of ancient Celtic cultures known for their influence on nature, control over magic, wisdom, and strong connection with the gods. Their capabilities may vary greatly based on setting, but they are considered a high-ranking class of ancient Celtic cultures.
When can druids cast spells?
Starting at 18th level, druid spells can be cast in any shape using Wild Shape. While in beast shape, somatic and verbal components can be performed, but material components cannot be provided. At 20th level, archdruids can use Wild Shape unlimited times and ignore verbal and somatic components, as well as non-consumable material components. This benefit is available in both normal and beast shapes.
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I feel like the third action is something you need to keep in mind during character creation. If you don’t keep it in mind, you’re likely to get stuck. You can use the Shield spell, or just use a physical shield. Aid, Recall Knowledge, Feint, Demoralize, or repositioning are all on the table, sure, but taking feats can expand that at low levels. Battle Medicine, Metamagic, or even Bon Mot can give extra utility for one action. Heck, if you have proficiency in a weapon that allows it, you could try using a ranged attack with a ranged weapon, like bows or throwing knives. Probably only a good idea if you didn’t cast an Attack spell, but still an option you could build around. It’s certainly a problem and these could still result in feeling like a one-trick pony for a few levels, but those options still exist.
Let’s see: -Aid action, not that great considering early DC is hard but every +1 do counts a lot so it can be worth -Really knowledge, a good way to seek an opening if you have the skills, more useful if your GM change some values on the creatures. -Raisin shields, staying alive is good. -Move, positioning so you don’t have to worry’s for line of sight and cover is important. -Intimidate, you don’t think your cleric as frightening? My boy, you have to ask your GM to fight some crazy cultist, a good debuff and considering that clerics like Chatisma it become great. -reload, your cantrips aren’t that great, so why don’t you carry a crossbow? It fits your proficiency and you need dex as a cloister cleric so that can be an option in a pinch where healing isn’t needed. That is what come to my mind immediately, but it show that there is alternatives when it come to piloting a caster and using that 3rd action.
You gotta consider your 3rd actions when building a character. That’s one of the reasons why I prefer oracles to clerics. Not only do you get more focus spells so you can always have a use for focus points, but also going with charisma as your casting stat gives you so many support options for your team through skill actions like demoralize, bon mot, and create a diversion. For clerics though, I personally would have chose guidance or Forbidding Ward as one of my cantrips, so that you can continue to support your team throughout the fight.
I’ve been playing a cloistered cleric for a little while now. My favorite thing to do at the start of combat is cast bless. Every following turn you can sustain and grow the radius by 5ft. It’s very satisfying in a long combat having a huge bless aura and really making a difference! More Crits more hits dwarven praying intensifies
I remember that in original dnd and in basic to some degree clerics were actually meant to be the closest thing to a gish outside of elves. You had decent hp and armor options and could cast spells and fight in melee. Usually, people think of paladins filling that role now but before paladins were in the game it was clerics who did that. It’s sad that clerics nowadays don’t have options to back that up like you said.
I’ve definitely noticed that most complaints about PF2e spellcasters come from divine casters. It takes a lot of effort to make a divine caster good, and a lot of that requires poaching stuff from outside the class. I really think more classes need 1 action focus cantrips – they don’t even need to be more powerful than a Bon Mot, they just need to be something easy for a caster to pick up and use every turn. The closest we’ve got is metamagic, but unless you’re a human you probably have better stuff to spend your level 2 class feat on.
We’ve been having the same problem, but we’ve kinda ruled around by introducing risk as a factor: casters can start a spellcasting that finishes by spending their first action their next round, but in the meantime enemies are allowed to interrupt the casting by attacking them. They then have to pass a flat 15 check to maintain the spell or a flat 10 if they have that concentration feat.
I don’t mind having few options, especially at low level. However, the 3-action economy does seem to fall apart when your spells all cost 2 or 3 actions… but don’t underestimate repositioning. In any case, necromantic is also the school of healing spells. Chill Touch is anti-healing and anti-undead. It’s not dirty, it’s just efficient. 😉 Regardless, I do like those rambly articles. For you I guess it’s like bouncing ideas, for me it’s hearing another perspective. It’s nice.
As someone who’s played a spellcaster, though an arcane one, one thing I very much recommend is Metamagic feat, which are basically made to fill that third action slot when you cast a spell. There are also summoning spells where you use your third action to command, you can recall knowledge, or do like one of my players to do role play related stuff, command your familiar or animal companion if you have one, reposition, use a skill, interact with the environment. As a spellcaster, not a turn went by where I thought I could have made use of a fourth action, as three felt like so little when two of them are used on a spell. You can even get a range or reach weapon and do an attack, sure you aren’t the best at martial combat, but you might hit something. It’s the same argument as the martial class doing three attacks in one turn with a huge penatly on the third… get creative with your actions, I find that part of the fun!
I definitely do agree that the Divine spell list is pretty limited when it comes to offensive cantrips. Every other spell list has some utility options and at least one or two reliable damage options, but the Divine spell list lacks damage cantrips that are generally applicable. Divine Lance is good when it works, but it’s very dependent on your character alignment and the campaign. Haunting Hymn and Daze deal very low damage and you don’t really get to roll anything for them until Level 5. And Chill Touch is a Touch-range spell, so it can be hard to use safely. If the Divine spell list had a more generally-applicable damage option, I think it’d be in a much better spot. Also, as a side note, Pathfinder Unchained for PF1 included a variant rule for using spell attack rolls against Save DCs instead of having enemies roll saves against your spells. And considering Save DCs are already an official mechanic, it wouldn’t be too hard to implement.
These are all valid feelings. As a forever DM, a thought I had during the article: Players – it is so important to talk to your DM about feeling like this about your character outside the game. There are so many things they can do. Provide a magic item to use for one action, they could have YOU roll for the save of the bad guy (at least that way you’d be rolling something), etc. To DMs: check in with players periodically, they may not know how to bring this stuff up.
As much as I rag on 5e, I do like that 5e has “Toll the Dead” and “Sacred Flame” (even “Word of Radiance”) to give a lot of combat cantrips for clerics. You already mentioned shield being on the divine list, that said, I’ll admit you likely won’t be constantly casting it, unless you’re in danger (kinda useful if you’re a warpriest using a 2h weapon, as a specific example). The last action for casters honestly may be better used with items, e.g. bombs or stuff like that, take advantage of splash damage. Since Daze targets a save, you wouldn’t have a multiple attack penalty. If there’s an alchemist willing to share, you can get a bomb out one turn and chuck it the next. It’d be nice if there was something wisdom based to get information or debuff a target, rather than just recall knowledge (int) or a lot of the charisma skills. If there’s a way to basically take advantage of your extra actions to assist allies that are normally action starved, that might be something. And of course, there’s always things like maneuvers, feinting, demoralize, etc., though as a dwarf that’s rough. (You’d think dwarves would be better clerics in 2e, given their history in TTRPGs, but i guess the assumption is they’d be warpriests and would just ignore the free spells.)
I don’t want to come across as invalidating, but this definitely feels like a problem you exclusively gave yourself. You built a character that doesn’t want to use the better cantrips, didn’t want to “waste” actions recalling to find out if you could divine lance, and picked the least offensive tradition of magic. You have various things you can do with your third action like guidance, shield, aid, demoralize, or recall, you could have a skill feat at this point to give you something else to do like bon mot, you had options. Yes, the divine tradition is a little worse off at lower levels than the other traditions, but it’s marginal. Someone who says “well I don’t WANT to cast guidance or recall knowledge” really can’t complain about having a third action laying around. not to mention that a handful of ancestries give access to a familiar at level one, so you could spend third actions on utilizing them, even if your class doesn’t afford you one.
Heres my two cents: I see a lot of people just listing off general 1-action effects anyone can take, but not all of those, or sometimes any of those, work with a character. Nonat’s character didn’t have a good melee attack, and probably had 14 dex at most. From what it sounds like, using a crossbow just doesn’t fit with the character theme. And if he doesn’t have anything to do in melee, why would he raise shield or take cover or move? Doesn’t sound like he would want his character to use intimidation or deception as a means to win (LG truth domain), so feint and demoralize are out, and 10 strength means no athletics either. And the thing is, I’ve had two PCs that had the exact same problems. Recall knowledge is the most obvious solution. Luckily two of the knowledge skills use int and two use wisdom, so if you play cleric, you can take both Nature and Religion. If your GM is nice, you can learn what saves the creature is weak to, which gets rid of the daze problem somewhat. Problem is, occult and divine don’t really have options to target specific saves with their cantrips or even their spells until much later on, so all you can really do is help an arcane or primal party member, or help your martials to know when to Trip, Feint or Demoralize. Also if you are a Charisma caster, you’re kinda out of luck. I think Guidance is also a good choice for a more supporty divine/occult character as others have said. Problem is its only once per encounter and you’re probably always going to use that on the attack roll.
the divine lance problem is exactly why my GM changed the spell for our low level party, way too many creatures are just neutral for that spell to shine and even when it works it still has the problem of not having anything like electric arc’s versatility or the crit effects of ray of frost or produce flame. So what we basically do is have it deal force damage for simplicity’s sake. It’s still less exciting than basically any other offensive cantrip and I get why the divine spelllist lacks that offensive option from a gamedesign perspective (which is why I personally am not a fan of this solution either, also bc force is the best dmg type in the game) but there could be ways to spice that spell up and keep in line with the cleric’s or oracle’s class identity as a vessel for some divine force. My pitch would be to give every deity an associated element that divine lance would inflict, give Gozreh electricity, Sarenrae fire, Irori bludgeoning, Urgathoa negative – whatever, make every cleric feel different by directly flavoring their choice of deity into their main offensive option. In our campaign (we play Abomination Vaults) the divine lance problem is even worse since we’re kind of an evil party so even if an enemy wasn’t neutral, chances are they are going to be evil so unless the evil cleric runs around hassling the town’s folk that spell is not going to do anything ever (hence the change).
This is the first word problems of Pathfinder. The action which in any other system would be a move action and not usable for anything besides moving can only be used for suboptimal things other than moving in my low level PC. It is cool enough that you have the ability to do anything else besides moving with your move action.
I haven’t gotten to play her yet, but I came up with a human oracle that should be fun at level 1. Cosmos mystery for the physical damage resistance, and Adapted Cantrip for Gouging Claw! She’s Neutral Good, has no particular patron deity so she can’t even qualify for Divine Lance, and thus has Gouging Claw, Chill Touch, Shield, Light, and Disrupt Undead. Although, Haunting Hymn might be an option too, in place of Disrupt Undead… Starting 1st-level spells are Bless and Heal. Bless is fun for support since I’m using my physical resistance to frontline and cast Gouging Claw on things, and the status bonus to hit increases my crit rate!
A few things I can think of for the third action: Recall Knowledge Strike with a sling or reload (I can’t remember if Cloistered Clerics get this). Prepare an item in my hand (get the healing potion ready or a spare shield for the fighter). Make perception rolls to see if there is anything/anyone hidden.
I’ve seen more bards complain about not having enough actions rather than not having a use for their 3rd action thanks to their plethora of composition cantrips. The 3rd action issue is one that many spellcasting classes have their own fun solution for. Druids, for example, can start with an animal companion, allowing them to cast a potent spell or cantrip, along with commanding their animal to attack every turn. Witches, similarly start with a one action hex cantrip, which can prove pretty useful at times. They also get a familiar to command, which can be specced to use skill actions, aid on knowledge checks, retrieve items throughout your turn, and many other things. I think wizards and cloister clerics are the only classes that don’t easily have access to a class specific 3rd action, but they’re also the most likely class to want to use skill actions tied to their key ability score, like knowledge checks, and medicine checks.
well… Coming from 1e I have the perspective of always having a crossbow in hand for casters. Since in 1e you had to roll touch (and ranged touch) attacks like it was an regular unarmed/ranged it was not at all uncommon for casters to have high dex anyways to hit those, so having a crossbow was pretty natural. So, I kinda view it the same way on 2e. Yeah, Map is a thing but, especially for clerics, you already have things such as bless and magic weapon and you get full bonus if you did opted to cast a non attack spell. (I think a cool clue we could get is from the iconics, like Kyra and Lini carries a Sling, Feiya carries a crossbow, etc. So, I feel like it’s a hint from Paizo that casters also have those options that they could go for.)
Yeah, I’ve got a tengu cleric of Nethys I’m playing and I realized in character creation that I don’t even get to use Divine Lance because Nethys is neutral. I had a workaround with tengu’s Storm Lash feat, but still, that meant I couldn’t take the hilarious Squawk! feat. Obviously I could’ve just picked a different deity, but it’s still a bit annoying. For using the third action, it’s been coming down to Shield, demoralize, and moving into line of effect (which was actually happening a lot, I’ve been standing pretty far behind with my hp and AC.)
I play a low level divine sorcerer with the divine tradition. Skills are vital to backing up your character. For me Bon Mot or Intimidation get big uses when you are husbanding your resources. Also, you doing recall knowledge frees up melee class. You really have to think Support when you play support.
if you wanna build a divine support, pick Forbidding Ward, its a spell that you must sustain, so basically you have a use for your third action while at the same time, making you feel good about it, especially if your GM emphasizes the use of it, even tho he missed by 5, he could still descibe the attack as “barely missing thanks to the magic floating ward around the character”. You don’t have STR? fine, i imagine you pumped DEX for some AC, buy a Crossbow then. Also i think that consumable are a little bit overshadow… sure they are not cannonball, but if you have a crafter in your group (highly suggested) or even a Spellcaster which think it through the consumable situation and so the GM again plays along by letting the group find consumable, i think that spellcaster could just chuck Alchemist’s Fire, this way you are not stuck to “i can’t divine lance because the enemy are not evil”, but you can choose between a pletera of items depending on enemies weaknesses. The same way you incentivise the use of the Third Action for martial class to be something else then Strike, the same way you incentivise CHA character to use intimidate and Bon Mot, you should incentivise your spellcaster to buy Consumable, buy Crossbow, and make use of that DEX
If your going support the Forbidden Ward and Guidance(1 Action Spell) to lean into the support roll rather than spending turn on attacking. Every +1 counts in PF2E and it seem like you were a bit dismissive of Guidance at the end there. Sure you can only use it once per fight per character but you got multiple party members to potential buff. Also on 3rd action if you are using bless to buff the party it only starts with 5ft Burst and you should be spending 1 action to sustain it each round to expand the Burst to support more of the party unless you all travel in box formation. That only leaves 2 actions for another Spell. But if you want the attack then potentially you can do what I did on my cleric which is take Human Adaptive Cantrip so character can swap in a spell from another school to get a good attack cantrip. As for another use of the 3rd Action you don’t need the shield cantrip just actually carry a shield around and raise it. Steel shield is better than the cantrip anyhow as it gives +2 instead of only +1. This is handy if you are on front line so your bless covers allies and you are next to enemies to help with flanking bonuses. To help with support I went the Protection Domain and get Protector’s Sacrifice to absorb some of the damage an ally would take. Another potential use of 3rd action is to Aid in an allies attack by attempting to distract the foe, Aid is a circumstance bonus so it stacks with Bless and Magic Weapon. You could also get trained in Athletics and try tripping.
Own a sling. They are free and 10 ammo is 1cp. Round 1, Bless and sling. Round 2, Daze and reload. Yes you won’t be very good with it, but at level 2 and a dex of 10 you are still at +5 (thanks to Bless). Decent chance of doing something. Oh, and you could also grow your bless radius by 5′ radius with that extra action, handy when the party spreads out a bit! Love your vids BTW.
I would like some kind of consistent aid action… though I do find myself repositioning a lot as my cleric, usually to aoe-heal the following turn, since we’ve been against undead a lot… It’s my oracle and druid I constantly feel like have nothing to do with the third action… (I somehow ended up being a healer in all three games I play in. >.>)
I wonder if it came down to your choice of cantrips. Guidance is always pretty good as a support character, as is forbidding ward, and guidance is even a 1 action cast! Then there are skill options such as recall knowledge and intimidation. Finally, there is always the aid action. Granted, not as good at level 2 as it is later, but with a +4 primary characteristic, you should have +8 in at least a skill or two, that you could use to distract, or whatever. Find clever ways to use those abilities. Also, with bless, you can sustain to increase the radius, which is also cool. And, yes, carry a crossbow. My dwarf Druid from Dongun Keep has a clan pistol. He even shoots it once and a while.
Divine font gives you 1 + your CHA mod heals, so you would have had one more. Also, there’s nothing wrong with grabbing a sling (or your deity’s favored weapon if it’s finesse) and dishing out those sweet d6s next to casting spells, if you really have nothing better to do. Your chances of hitting are roughly those of a fighter’s 2nd attack on that level even if you started at just 14 DEX, it’s not so bad that trying would just be pointless.
Our group had this complaint last fall and our GM came up with what he calls “Long Casting” like your taking the extra time to cast the spell. For every extra action you spend you cast a spell as if you were one level higher. Usually ends up just being a +1 to DC or rolls but has been pretty nice sometimes.
When you say this issue affects only a small percentage of players, if you consider how many players have caster characters, you’re looking at about 50% (when you look at a standard party). Shield is an answer only until you use it once, then it takes 10 minutes to recharge. Maybe having something like “micro-spells” would be helpful? Like a one-action spell that adds your casting modifier damage on the next hit on a particular opponent? Or resistance to damage equal to your casting mod on the next attack? Or maybe it’s just 1 point? But we need more 1 action spells.
All characters should feel useful at all levels. No argument. If a class feels like it isn’t contributing at particular levels then that’s a failure of game design. This article is not unique – I’ve seen complaints about low level PF2E Spellcasters before. The game could have used more playtesting. Trying to avoid this problem by saying whataboutthis or that is not helpful. PF2e needs to move to 2.5.
I am playing cloistered cleric for AP and she is lv 12 right now. it’s fairly high level, so I have some offensive options, but I can’t find a moment to use it anyway because other party members are busy dying, and they also have a tendency to run away from their healer so I rarely have an action left over. besides that story, if anyone wants to play a more offensive cloistered cleric, choose to worship Sarenrae. the diety gives a good offensive focus spell as fire domain and also gives you burning hands, fireball, and firewall spells. because of their high wisdom, there are many cases when clerics win the initiative and will get many chances to use big aoe spells like fireball spell. and also speaking of the third action and daze, the Bon Mot feat is a great feat to take at a low level. give one good quip(1action) at a foe and give them a status penalty to wisdom save(it makes them vulnerable to daze ) and possible action lost due to crit fail with daze or to end Bon Mot effect and this is just while for the low-level, but Clerics get proficiency in the simple weapon, so a hand crossbow is a good option to utilize spare actions.
While I haven’t found using all 3 actions is that hard for spellcasters since I usually build my characters with action economy in mind (for a cleric there’s raise shield, the shield cantrip, demoralize if my charisma is decent enough, sustaining bless, etc.), it would be really nice for casters in general if there were more skill actions (and feats) for the knowledge skills (arcana, nature, occultism, religion) besides recall knowledge since basically every caster is bound to invest in one of them.
I have also had a similar experience when I played a cleric one time. The only difference was that I took the War Priest path as opposed to Cloistered Cleric. When it came to combat my options were pretty limited to make a weapon attack ( Longsword 12 Str ) or wait for someone to take some damage. I don’t remember which domain I took but at the end of the day it would be nice to see Divine casters have some more options.
I have seen “3rd action problem” a lot for both casters and martials. Martials often are on their 3rd MAP attack and just swing anyway for a small hit/crit chance. Charisma characters are amazing at the action economy game though. They can throw in demoralize and bon mot in between two actions. If you are a caster without a good action focus spell and are INT/WIS there is pretty much recall knowledge and shield (GMs often don’t target the guy 30+ feet away though when there are 2+ martials standing in front of them). I hate recall knowledge though so normally I try to find a good use of a third action through archetypes/feats. Basically just trying to find a good focus spell, metamagic or interesting feats. An easy option is to just pick up a bow or elemental blast for a little bonus options. I have seen a lot casters just fumble around with the third action. They mostly just cast shield which is basically like casting nothing when there is a very low chance you are going to get attacked.
The main caster class that I typically play (and favor) is the magus, so I don’t suffer from the 3rd action being wasted as I always have actions to use. Turn 1 typically goes with a move action followed by a spell strike. Turn 2 Arcane cascade then striking or casting another spell, or my focus spell (usually dimensional assault) and usually by Turn 3 I am able to repeat the process in one way or another, although the magus is a class where every action they get will get used. Maybe draconic bloodline sorcerers built for their dragon claws could work better with the 3rd action, or maybe warpriests. But that’s just my take on everything.
Ranged Weapon can really help to break the monotony. Sure, you shoot your crossbow only once in two turns, but you roll your dice. And if you strength is low and your inventory tight, slinger is always there. He’ll not judge, hes okay if you don’t use him often, and he can help you with when the words cant hurt your enemies.
I use a bunch of stuff. I command a Familiar, sustain a spell, make RK tests, command a summoned creature, demoralize, bon mot, move, attack… There are plenty of options for someone wich intended to fight things. My cloistered cleric have summoner dedication in pfs and my wizard is a familiar master with elven weapon familiarity to use a bow. This whole conversation is pointless. Its like the fighter complaining of don’t have things to do in downtime or complex skill challenges.
To me, it’s a failure of the aid another action at low level (and well, you forgot about shield). It’s one of my first houserule: You automatically succeed at aid another, something absolutely trivial at high level play, when everyone has other options available. At low level, aid another should help bring together the idea of a group of newcommers fightings against the odds together to become the adventurers. It’s when it has the most value.
one thing i gotta say really enhances the Fun of PF2e Casters and especially healer/support characters is getting a bit bold, taking risks, and praying fortune is on your side. trust me, Archetype Feats can drastically change things you once thought were problems. Moon Whisper was throwing a returning dagger and doing athletics rolls with a -1 Str Modifier. a negative one.
Have not watched the article yet, at work and waiting for a break. However on the subject of Low Level Spellcasters and the third action I have never seen an issue with it. I almost always need to either move to get into position, move to get away, raise a shield, recall knowledge, or use some other form of check. I am excited to see what the article hold.
Chill touch doesn’t necessarily have to be a dirty necromancy spell. For example, you could be a worshipper of Pharasma who happens to be a death domain cleric (pretty sure there is another domain, Pharasma’s not my favorite) where you use chill touch to either weaken undead, or when not fighting undead, hastening their path to the Boneyard
I feel like this sums up the feeling I have about the system. It has so many unique things to choose from, and yet the support casters feel like you aren’t doing anything worthwhile until you become level 5 or so and have some of those options. That said it really drives home how the caster would feel in combat. Levels 1-4 are learning what it means to be an adventurer as seen by someone who instead of training their body, began to unearth secrets of the universe, or just started to recieve the favor of their gods following rigorous study of dogma. I do think it would be nice to have a feat that lets casters get +1 to their next spell attack roll or DC by focusing for an action though.
Dude I super love your articles, but honestly this time it seems you closed yourself in a corner with your build. Why didn’t you get Intimidate or Deception? You could have demoralized with that single last action. I know dwarves get -1 CHA but you could still easily get +2 there if you get a flaw. Otherwise Recall Knowledge is always a good investment when you cannot move to flank or take cover. I also don’t really get why you want to be stuck with Daze instead of Chill Touch or Haunting Hymn.. They don’t have the evil trait so you’re just fine casting them as a LG PC.. P.s. please put a virtual BG behind you 🙂
so you could use Haunting Hymn as a Ghost Rider kind attack. The ghosts called up are the evils they commited or people they hurt or wronged. My group and I have agreed to let actions carry over for multiple action combos into the next round. So that last stand alone action can be you starting to cast again. I know thats not what the rules or devs have said but as I don’t like the structure of combat as a tik tik tik then reset, we see it more as a moving flowing thing. I do see that spell attack being an issue. Especially if your using the crit fumble deck. My dragon blood sorcerer is le level 10 and pretty much I don’t cast any spell with an attack roll. I could esely crit fail and then draw the card out that ends in the casters death. (We just have them pass out)
Not gonna lie bud, it sounds like you overly limited your own choices and ended up in a dissatisfying gameplay loop that could have been avoided if you were a little more open-minded to your concept. While the Truth Domain doesn’t sound like it would’ve been very spiritual-based, you’re still playing a Cleric, so you could have flavored Haunting Hymn as you calling onto the “truth” left unspoken by the dead. You could have had Guidance cast as hearing the words of truth from your god in order to further boost your party’s effectiveness. If you were worried about whether Divine Lance would’ve worked against a creature, using an action to Recall Knowledge in order to figure out the alignment of the creature you’re fighting is perfectly viable, and you could have chalked it up to seeking the “truth” of the creature’s intentions. There’s a lot of ways to open up that 3rd action for Divine spellcasters, but it won’t help to get caught up in what your character CAN’T or WOULDN’T do. Assume they WOULD do it and then work backwards as to why they would!
I dunno I feel like demoralize, aid, or movement are all extremely valid 3rd actions on top of recall/identify being something most casters have at least an option to do cus of one of the guaranteed skills. Interact which depending on situations is absolutely necessary (potions). Also, there’s always stuff like battlefield medicine and some racial or class based one action abilities/spells. Depending on the class too Shield Block. PS Heal 3 vs Undead and people are injured on your team. 😘👌 PPS Healing is necromancy too
I don’t really have this problem. Well, ok, the two characters I played as a spellcaster was a Bard, so I got Compositions and Shield to cover up, and a Summoner so I have 4 actions and can do funky stuff like Protect Companion, Act Together and move my Eidolon, but even considering something like a Wizard or a Cleric, I think then you can do things like Recall Knowledge or movement to aid your allies or put yourself out of danger. Another thing to consider is that sometimes that third action is being hold by a Concentration action, so you only have 2 actions per turn, might as well use your big 2 Action spells and use the third action to keep focusing on that Haste. But PF2e does kinda have this problem, especially with the Divine spell list. This, added to the fact that honestly combat cantrips for Divine casters blow, and you can have a both that moves and Dazes for combats and rarely deviate from this formula.
A thing I find people forget with Clerics is that nature and religion are both wisdom keyed not Int keyed. And they’re the two skills that encompass the most common ennemy types. You can RK on giants, beasts, undead, fiends and elementals very easily. You could also have used the aid action quite easily, if you’re unsure what to do. Sure you might fail but meh, worth it. That being said, once that’s done.. as a low level caster (specially cleric)… it is a bit lackluster. I’m currently playing a 1-4 spellcaster in 3 different games and all I want to do is shake the GM to say : ”CAN WE GET TO LEVEL 5 PLEASE!! THIS IS WHERE I START BEING USEFUL!!”
So I’ve been playing a Dwarf Warpriest for the last 2 1/2 years in a Age of Ashes campaign we are about to hit level 8 soon. I can tell you I have had a number of struggles with the class since the beginning. Some of the struggles have been with mechanics as I have found myself behind the rest of the group because let’s face it 20 speed so there are points where raising my shield as my 3rd action after casting a spell was mostly what I did because it was no longer advantageous to me or the party to try to move. It certainly is a doing something action but much like your throwing daze constantly after a while the I cast then raise shield feels very bland. Even as you note below you have the Shield spell you cast that it starts to feel like just a filler task especially when your parties fighters are being targeted and not you.
For 3rd actions, in terms of cantrips for a support cleric: guidance, forbidding ward sustain, *cough*shield*cough*. A cleric without any charisma skills feels bad man you spent 3 boosts so charisma was probably the joint second highest stat? Saying that, Demoralise doesn’t need training in intimidation – the difference due to level isn’t big yet. In any case you could recall knowledge, find out it’s alignment, find out it’s weak save, any weaknesses (info is a form of support 😉 ). 3rd option: attack (you may find more success with a ranged weapon than you did with the light mace) or reload for your ranged weapon.
Lots of repeated advice, but here goes. Shield (physical or magical) is always good. Also think stealth to hide from incoming… Be a Gangsta’ Cleric. Divine Lance first, redeem the survivors later. If it works, it means your deity doesn’t like your target. (So try it even if you dont know alignment. Yes, animals tend to be N, but everything else tends to hit something on the good-evil or order-chaos spectrum. How does trying hurt?) Would also give you an opening to end combat. (“Wait! Torag doesn’t hate you? Lets talk a sec. Maybe you don’t need to die right now…”) Ranged attacks. Chip away at the bad guys without getting your hands dirty. Slings ($) and crossbows (Range) are your friends. Throw stuff, etc. Remember, using that oil you use for anointing stuff to set the heathen ablaze gets you bonus/style points with some deities… First Aid, Battle Medicine, and Recall Knowledge. Annoy the enemy. Seriously. If you can make yourself enough of a pain, you take some heat off your frontline. Explain why they are sinners, criticize their hygiene, solicit contributions, invite them to Bingo Night, or keep putting arrows in their leader. Use that action to work battlefield control. Make them try to get to you, past that fighter with the AoO… But enjoy the game.
Even as a new player to Pathfinder, I’ve never understood why people didn’t know what to do with their third action. I’m playing my first ever real spellcaster in any RPG and I chose Guidance because it’s a 1 Action +1 for anyone toward ANY roll until my next turn. If I want I can cast it on 3 different players, which is even helpful even out of combat for downtime activities and just general Role Play. Technically you are a creature, so if you were going to cast Scorching Rays you could cast Guidance on yourself first to get a +1 towards the attack. *I also got Healing Plaster as it lasts for 1 Minute and the Medical skill is super useful in Pf2e.
Where are your other stats? You said Str was 10, so swinging a sword might be out, but what about… Con? Shield up and use your movements to get into flanking to help melee. Int? Recall Knowledge to find a weakness. Dex? Pick up a crossbow, throw a vial of acid, or cold, or fire. Cha? Intimidate the enemy. Just about any stat? Use the aid action. You really can’t build a support character then be upset that your options are fairly limited to support options… Or can you? I guess you did.
Hey, Occult gets Telekinetic Projectile (that you didn’t list IIRC). It’s not bad for a cantrip. Really wish it was just Electric Arc again, but that’s because Electric Arc is OP. My Monk also wishes he could take an Occult or Divine multiclass to get Electric Arc. Instead, I have to take on Druid to get a saving throw cantrip that isn’t horrible, which seems a little out of flavor for an automaton…
I played for a few weeks on a campaign that started at level 3 and the Cloistered Cleric that I built was IMO the strongest character that I’ve ever played. Having 4 extra heal spells at max level, high enough charisma to demoralize or bon mot as needed, heavy armor AC through Champion Dedication, and TBH not that shabby of a to-hit bonus(2 behind regular martials), my biggest problem what that I was having too little actions in my turn (specially since my character’s downside was their terrible speed in full plate without enough strength). That being said, I carefully planned around having always a good third action, being trained in intimidation and diplomacy, taking bon mot and reach spell. Being Human, I also decided to go for Adapted Cantrip to get Electric Arc and have a good general purpose damage cantrip. Also, Calm Emotions is basically the best AoE Crowd-Control low level spell in the game by a mile.
I played a Witch in an old campaign I had once, and this issue eventually started to get a bit more apparent, not gonna lie. I would usually just “cast my spell and use shield”, with my most frequent spell being Telekinetic Projectile. My familiar didn’t usually have a lot of stuff to do, so it usually just stayed away from trouble in combat, and even Shield felt kinda useless at time. I eventually solved this problem with roleplaying. Because I was a Witch of the Runes patron I started recalling knowledge with my third action more often, and since I was an Orc with the Orc Fist feat and most encounters were in enclosed spaces where I needed to fight at very close ranges against people, I would often be like: “so, my character is pissed at this guy, so I’ll punch him.” It was hilarious, even though I almost always missed. It was 100% in-character too, he was an overconfident manchild, of course he would think punching enemies with his 12 strength was a good idea.😂
“He would not use that dirty necromantic magic.” Ah, I see. Then why does he cast Heal? Also, just because one is lawful good does’t mean they wouldn’t use negative energy attacks. “Halt! You have committed a crime. Your life force will now be fined!” Joking aside, I feel we all end up doing stuff like this. Sometimes a character isn’t as fun as we expected. Talking about it with someone who knows the game can really help, either getting you through your mental block or your friend suggesting something. I can’t tell you how many times my friends and I have used each other as sounding boards. Thank you for your content! Even a simple, more candid article like this can lead to great discussions and advice.
How does Divine Lance nor get use? It’s a Cantrip and you can always just use Good. Has it gotten to the point that all enemies are just Neutral now? I was under the impression that the Players were fighting Evil. Divine Lance should only be useless for Players that follow a Neutral Deity. Just, why would Divine Lance not get a hit on an enemy? Are they all True Neutral? How is it a surprise that it worked on a Worg? Pretty sure you’re supposed to be fighting Evil. Why do people hate Monsters and Villains? They don’t fucking exist anymore!
You’ve just basically agreed with what Roll20 said in his “We’re Quitting 2e” tirade. It wasn’t true then and it’s not true with your experience (the singular of ‘data’ is not ‘anecdote’). You built a character that you unintentionally made boring for you to play. Anyone who plays a cloistered cleric will know that you have a very small repertoire of combat actions, so you need to build other aspects of character with skills, spells, or items. You are responsible for creating a character archetype that bored YOU. Others might find it more interesting; it might depend on the setting whether there’s a ton of combat or a lot more investigation/social campaign gameplay. There were literally hundreds of other ways to build a cleric… You didn’t choose (and possibly didn’t explore) them. Otherwise, love the website, and you.
Well “Forbidding Ward” lets you still support, it not flashy but it’s there. “Haunting Hymn” may only nickel and dime, is thematic for dwarves. There is Cantrip Expansion to keep the versatility and take all of the Combat Cantrips, I know you don’t like it but that’s what it is for. Lastly Multi-classing with fighter and using a Whip to trip targets is also an option
In my experience every class should be considered a martial class until level 5+. Until then everyone is still only trained in weapons (except the fighter). Sure if your STR is low you’re gonna need a finesse or ranged weapon. Just whacking away at something could be just as boring, but it’s a viable option and spellcasters still have spells. As for those 3rd actions, casting or raising a shield, or moving is never bad.
As you say, probably mainly for the kind of character you were playing. My first time playing the system I was a level 1 sorcerer and it took until the end of the session before I ever went: “Huh, what am I going to do with my third action? I was always moving around, sustaining Dancing Lights or casting Shield, sometimes all three.
You’re right, but I think this is less a Pathfinder 2E or 3rd action issue than opting to play a support caster at low levels that have too few and not a diversified spell list to do much else in combat. This was why often people in AD&D back in the day felt “forced” to play a cleric because they were just bad fighters who casted cure wounds after combat. Low level casters in most systems can be really boring to play; just imagine all those “magic users” in AD&D who literally had one first level spell the entire adventuring day and didnt even have a crossbow D&D 3.5 best solved this issue by giving clerics a ton of options, though with all those options it was possible to break them around level 10 or so.
Personally, if I play a divine caster at low levels I prefer a spontaneous caster (sorcerer or oracle) to a prepared one (witch or cleric). Spontaneous casters have less spells in their repertoire than a cleric has to choose from when they prepare spells, but flexibility on how to use those spell slots in combat is huge at low levels. That flexibility was baked into the cleric class in PF 1e and D&D 3.5 and it should have never been taken away from them for this very reason. I don’t think sorcerer/oracle is as good heal bot as a cleric, but it is close enough for low level games IMO. Couple things from the article: Font spells are 1+Charisma bonus, so your Dwarf should have had two font/heal spells a day. Divine Casters do have access to Shield cantrip. Heal is also necromancy college, so I’ve never had a cleric that was squeamish about using chill touch. Except that I have to get too close to comfort to use it!
I find that Guidance is a good fill in spell for as a single action spell I don’t know how a +1 to someone next d20 roll is something you can’t find a place for with a 30 foot range. Also under Occult you forgot Telekinetic Projectile as a pretty decent dmg spell. Divine you are correct it’s highest dps cat is Divine Lance and then your stuck with Daze for aligment stuff. Also I just like filling in for the knowledge guy on such casters. Roll to identify and all that stuff.
Sorcerers are great because they are good at charisma skills so Demoralize + Spell is a common rotation for me, lol. And being a Nagaji with acceptable Dexterity, my character has also had the option of biting someone’s face off with my third action, lol. I feel like the main option for most casters is movement. Get better positioning for future spells like lines, cones, AoEs or melee, or Step out of melee for your own safety. That’s probably what I’d do with a Wizard more often than not.
As GM i homebrew recall knowledge so every RK skill can be used on every creature for specific things. Society gives their skills/language, occultism gives perception and sense, arcana gives any non-strike magic, crafting is their attacks, so on each different skills DC doesn’t increase, but if you fail you’re done. This let’s my cleric try religion and medicine on every combat to give more info on their enemies.
Guidance (1 action) Bless, concentrate for 1 action and expand, Recall knowledge, Battle medicine, move to reposition, 😀 We’ve been playing with dedicated clerics, don’t want it any other way. The bard’s cantrips are also mostly one action so, there is that. The options are there, but it all depends on the build
This is absolutely nuts to me, and explains so much of why I disagree with so many people about the power of spellcasters. Nonat says that his one shot had *one encounter per DAY*. While technically nothing in the rules prevents this, this is highly atypical in both AP design and any game I’ve ever played, which tend to have 3-6 encounters per day at a minimum. One AP notoriously has a streak of 11 encounters 1st level, and the narrative explicitly states that resting could cause a lot of deaths. There is a huge difference in the power of a caster that is doing one encounter per day and one that has to be dragged through 5+ encounters in a day, especially at low levels, but even at higher levels you will quickly run out of high level spells (no matter the order you use them) and be limited to effectively playing a lower level caster for the rest of the day. It’s why I’m not a fan of the spell slot system (we use a slight variant where you can get back a small number of spells when refocusing) as it creates a significant power differential between the casters in a party where rests are frequent and one where they are more rare, and this is a limitation that martials basically lack entirely. The power of spells I think is fine, but the resource management minigame can either be brutal (if you play like my groups tend to) or completely irrelevant (if you play like Nonat apparently does). And the difference is based entirely on your GM and the story, and one of the things I love about 2e is that mechanical balance rarely hinges on roleplaying considerations.
If you were going to limit your options because of aesthetics you should definitely keep in mind what options you can take and I can’t believe you didn’t take guidance as a support bot. There’s a lot of other things you can do that aren’t spells. You’re a dwarf right where is that clan pistol? Bad dex, who cares? That action wasn’t going to be used anyway. If there’s no guns then just pick up any simple ranged weapon. Didn’t know what alignment a creature is so divine lance was a gamble? Recall knowledge, it’s such a useful support action and I feel like it does not get used nearly enough. Demoralizing is a good option too to support your allies without getting too close. The reach spell metamagic is apparently something clerics get access to. AID! You can help your fighter crit by giving him a bonus to hit. Why were you not sustaining your bless every single turn to increase its area. That’s about everything I can think of without knowing what feats you took.
I think if there were just basic actions that spellcasters could use as a third action it would fix this issue. Martials get shove, trip, grapple, disarm (gross), and feint as basic actions they can do that don’t require feat taxes. Why can’t casters have something like that? I know people are going to say recall knowledge and demoralize. For those you have to hope the enemy matches skill that you’re good at recalling, and enemies become immune to your demoralize.
Drop a guidance as your third action, or move into melee to help the fighter flank and cast a shield spell to protect yourself. Use forbidding ward on allies to increase their tankiness. As a cloistered cleric, you really shouldn’t go into it thinking, “I’m going to be a damage dealer.” The class (specifically that doctrine) is meant for support and aiding others. There is also nothing stopping you from taking a dedication feat to gain some arcane, primal, or occult cantrips to boost offensive options. It also doesn’t have to be magical in nature. Recall Knowledge can give the party a real edge against a tough enemy (coupled with message to the fighter so the enemy is not aware that you are about to exploit its weaknesses). If you happen to be trained in Athletics, a Shove or Trip can help allies, or even just a successful Disarm means the enemy is losing an action to regain their grip. How about a Demoralize to impose the frightened condition, reducing its saves and AC. You can always spend that third action to Take Cover or Hide, thus granting you bonuses to AC or catch an enemy flat-footed, respectively. Use that third action to ready yourself to Aid an ally’s attack roll or skill check and increase the odds of the party’s success. Grab a crossbow, javelin, or simple ranged weapon, Cast a Spell that requires a save then make a weapon attack at no penalty on that third action. I simply can’t abide the idea that it’s hard to find things to do with that third action when the developers have added no end of options (and that’s not to mention the metamagic feats that spellcasters have available, even at lower levels).
You can give a Cloistered Cleric more options in combat – for instance Adapted Cantrip is a great Ancestry feat. Suddenly you can cast Electric Arch or some other offensive cantrip of your choosing. At level 2 you could also have the Trick Magic Item feat, and casting scrolls from other spell lists is great. The thing is that you have to be aware of this when you create your character, or you will become a one-trick pony, Use stride action to give the more martial characters in your party flanking is also great, but can be risky because of low AC.
I play a (kinda pacifist) support cleric in my first pathfinder campaign and i always had more than 3 actions to do whether that is moving, recall knowledge, interacting with stuff or enemies. Im level 5 now and i never used my weapon and used divine lance like 3-5 times until now so i really never had that problem xD (Although im really crazy for the evangelize feat ill eventually get to compete for the third action slot aswell)
I played a support warpriest in age of ashes and dumped wisdom, it was the most fun I’d had in some time. You honestly need CHA more for buffing than wisdom. That 16 starting charisma was vitally important for other stuff (in my case bon mot). I think this was largely because of the spell list that I made those choices. I never had enough actions for my turn. I think its a bit of an issue for pure casters with the divine list.
So we had the opposite problem – I played a cleric and generally had something to do with my actions even if it was spending a few turns passing guidance around once per party member, etc. On the contrary the martials were often in positions where x3 attack actions were all they could think to do was that third attack MAP felt absolutely TERRIBLE for them. One literally said they’d have preferred to just be able to use 2 things a turn rather than taking that third attack that cannot hit outside a nat 20.
My current cleric would run out of actions due to a sustainable focus spell and the boost option in bless as well as shield. Though if you are far enough back casting shield might not matter. Also when counting bonus spells from Divine Font for a dwarf with 12 charisma or a PC with 16 charisma wouldn’t those be 2 and 4 bonus spells since it is 1 + charisma modifier?
I can say that I am playing two spell casters right now and don’t have this problem. Granted they are higher level now but I remember when I was low level Druid and I had 3-4 options I wanted to do with my third action. A few examples were moving into a better position, taking cover (I was a wood elf so this is easier, and there were usually a mix of melee and ranged enemies), casting guidance, recall knowledge, hiding. Granted I built my character so these options would be available to me. I think it does come down to character creation and being mindful that you want useful third actions. For divine casters forbidding ward is a pretty good supportive cantrip that you can use your third action to sustain.
Your description of the character makes me think they’re way more of a role play character then a combat one. Which is great, more people should do that. But you’d be in an even worse position if there was a second combat encounter as you’ve already used all your spell slots. A ranged weapon may have been a good idea. It’s also a case that they were made for one job. Buff the party at the start of combat. And hope that no other combats happen for the rest of a day. Yes, your party is really hard for one combat. A role play heavy character that is skewed towards buffing the party is never going to be that much fun after you’ve cast your spells. Especially at lower levels. You have to ask yourself ok, Ive cast bless and magic weapon, now what do I do? Ruling out half the offensive spells a divine caster has access to because they don’t feel right for them is good role play. Great. But your intentionally limiting your tactics. That’s your fault. Not the game. It’s how you designed your character.
Cloistered Clerics in particular have it rough. They have very few consistent damage cantrips. For regular ranged damage that doesn’t require undead or a particular alignment, they really only have Daze. If they put Wisdom first, they probably put Dexterity second for the AC, which then limits the combat skill options. Until they start getting more spell slots and some damaging spells, there isn’t a whole lot to do other than healing and buffs, and I’ve actually ran out of Guidance uses because of its hour-long cooldown. A Warpriest can at least do a little damage attacking weaker enemies, and they actually have the easier time stacking Charisma for extra font spells. Cloistered Cleric is more for high-level anti-undead blasting.
Sounds like a suboptimal build. Could have used a finesse weapon? Could have used a bow? Later levels would be worse since the hp/bonus difference between the caster and the fighter class become dramatic. Could have boosted charisma with better race choices. That being said totally agree. The third action needs to built around during character generation. Biggest issue with Pathfinder so far. Fighter takes a wild swing, spellcaster takes a wild bow shot, ranged inventor…. does nothing if no need to reload and going to miss.
Prepare for Aid……I literally watched another article where you recommended that as a fantastic third option. That allows you to start strategically assisting different members of your group in a way that’s almost as powerful as bless, and requires you to be situationally aware….How you aid also has a lot of room for creativity.
My reaction is ‘good’. For too long in D&D martial classes have sat in the shadow of casters, mere meat-shields. The caster/martial balance needs to be swug more in favour of martials and nerfing casters is the way to go in my opinion. Particularly their survivability as this would mean they have to spend resources looking to their own defence.
Hey, I really like most of your articles, but this one was hard to watch. Basically what you’re saying is that you’ve built your character gimped and that turned out to be unrewarding in combat. I can understand not wanting to min max, but if you’re building a character without a plan in mind, then yes, you will be out of options and bored.
At worst this character can just raise a shield / cast shield / guidance. I am not sure why anyone would dislike casting guidance. In general, there are tons of things to do with your third action as mentioned by others. Yes, it is very easy to make a character that doesn’t have a lot of fun one action things to do with a third action. At the same time, it is very easy to have a lot of things to do with a third action. The only thing I really agree with is the Divine List just isn’t my favorite either. Since their cantrips are weird it almost feels like they expected players to use weapons or something. There are plenty of ways to go around this with archetypes/innate spells and the secret of magic items. Forgot what they are called, but they give you a cantrip that uses your DC. Casters at level 1-2 can be decently fun but at level 3+ they just keep getting more interesting. Level 5 is definitely when you start getting some really fun spells.
Intimidate, Recall Knowledge, Guidance, Raise a Shield, Cast Shield Spell, Bon Mot, Use a Ranged Weapon (assuming you’re not in combat). There are plenty of options here if you build for one of them. Going low Charisma hurts as a cleric, but if you’re building for having something to do, it’s not that hard. NTM Bless requires an action each round, as does Spiritual Weapon once you hit level 3. Also, just to clarify, George won’t use Heal because of that “dirty necromantic magic”? You basically said it, you built a buffing character and didn’t think about what to do when you weren’t buffing :-P. There were options there, you just didn’t take them. A crossbow is a pretty solid option at low levels for a cleric.