Is The Most Potent Dbdz Character, Mystic Gohan?

AMAZING article, most powerscaling articles just take things way too slowly by going over unnecessary detail at a painful pace but this article is short and yet is still able to bring all the evidence possible to let the viewers decide their own stance. The faster presentation and editing made this article feel far more than just 10 minutes. Incredible work, Carthu.

Im not a hardcore fan that follows everything that happens in the Dragon Ball universe, but I’m certain the reason why a lot of people question Gohan and Cell Max is because of the suddenness of all these power-ups. Sure, it’s been mentioned before that Goku and Vegeta are reaching their max potential that even zenkai boost no longer grants any significant power-ups to them. Their progression is only going to slow ever more even when they’re training with Gods and Angels. However, regardless of that info, Goku and Vegeta have been consistently training and fighting. They’ve been the powerhouse of the entirety of Universe 7 with the exception of deities through all their battles and sacrifices, and we’ve witnessed them be pushed to be stronger time and time again. Yet suddenly these new Androids rivals their power because the story demands it. Yeah, totally make sense that a mortal scientist even with data can create robots powerful enough to match two saiyans with powers that can surpass gods of destruction. Since it’s been pointed out that Jiren is actually stronger than his Universe’s God of destruction, it only makes sense that with all their power-ups since the ToP, Goku and Vegeta are vastly stronger than Gods of destruction as well. Like, you’re really going to expect people to accept that a scientist out there can just pop out robots stronger than Gods of Destructions leisurely? The story so far have made it clear that Angels are so strong that they’re straight up not allowed to fight anyone seriously otherwise they vanish, and these Angels are responsible for training gods of destructions, and Goku and Vegeta are literally training with Whis and Beerus.

The problem with the whole “They’re close to Goku and Vegeta” information that they give for certain villains or “side characters” is that, they don’t specify what form they are close to, we’re left to guess or assume, which creates. . .controversy. Which is why I appreciate you kind of pointing that out in 5:00

Honestly I like the concept of 2 continuities in dragon ball it makes it seem as if every episode and every manga page is both canon despite being completely different having the anime follow the manga is fine but super wasn’t only about fighting some of the slice of life gave us a peek into the life of the Z fighters when not fighting. Yes somethings in the anime are silly or bad like animation and making characters look bad but in a way Super is it’s own show having it diverge from the manga will really show how creative the team can get especially with the resources they have from the first season

I really agree with everything, personally. think your 2nd power scale was close to if not entirely perfect. One inconsistency though, Goku and Vegetas new forms are god ki based, yet earlier in battle of God’s it was stated the only way to read God ki is by possessing it yourself, so how did anybody scale goku and vegeta? I don’t recall Gohan or Piccolo attaining God ki, and I’m pretty sure the guy who made the androids doesn’t have God ki either.

I really hope they don’t leave Broly behind in the dust. I’m a big fan of him and would love to see him get a new form that’s on par with at least Goku and Vegeta. I would also love to see him team up with them. Having Broly join their squad would be awesome. They would definitely be an unstoppable force if that happened. Just imagine a new villain showing up and now it’s not only Goku and Vegeta defending the universe but also Orange Piccolo, Beast Gohan and a new and improved Broly. The villain would probably shit his pants lol. It would be like a new age Z Squad.

With Jiren, he commands energy through his eyes and barely lifts a finger. He’s gotten this far without facing a foe as skilled as Goku or Vegeta so, like Broly, he can still transcend everyone with the same amount of intense training as the duo went through. Remember, both Kale and Broly have god-tier power upon their first super saiyan transformations and both are just acting on raw talent while still trying to control their rage. So, yes, Goku was indeed afraid truly because even if he was at max power, if Broly figured out SSJ2 that would be the end of him. With Gohan, we all know that he’s the best; his latent potential is the highest of all the saiyans and with very little effort as we’ve seen him grow up. If Gohan truly wished to become strong in the way Goku and Vegeta want it, there’s no doubt he’d be the strongest but I doubt that will ever happen. What I mean is Goku and Vegeta will never truly be #1 strongest due to their transformations, latent ability and prowess BUT they will be the most skilled giving them the widest arensal to work with. While, they may never truly realize that fact, Goku and Vegeta will be the strongest without actually being the “strongest” lets just say “most capable” compared to the other heroes.

I guess, we have to see how the manga chapters work out their telling of the Gohan Beast form, since we are 100% sure now in the current chapter it is after the Granolah/Gas arcs and even Black Frieza as far as time line. So, statements that the Manga Beast Gohan may exceed Goku/Vegeta would mean stronger than their UI and UE forms. Remember, in the movies, it was written before the Moro arc so the movie writers had to make some safe bets and assumption: this was why Whis insist Goku and Vegeta spar at base forms in the movies. At that time, the animators and writers had no clue what Goku and Vegeta’s new form would look like by the time the movie actually will release in theatres. Now, the manga is catching up to the movie timeline, and Toyotoyo and Toriyama has to retrofit Granolah storyline into the Super Heroes storyline. And if Gohan beast is meant to be the strongest by the end of the arc, then the manga story will make Beast stronger than UE and UI with some more additional details we didn’t get in the movies. Such as Whis sensing Beast Gohan.

I agree with Gohan Beast being the new ceiling of power and sitting above Goku and Vegeta. Feels like they’re shaking things up from the Goku being the strongest and saving the day story which happens for each saga. Can’t say for sure about Black Frieza but I think Gohan wins in a close fight. Gohan has always been that guy with the most latent potential so it makes sense he’s the strongest. Interesting to see how he compares to Beerus… it’s getting a little old/boring with Beerus being multiple tiers above everyone. Takes away from the urgency and tension of big battles because you know if shit hits the fan and there is a universal threat he could just step in. Angels can’t fight or interfere so I think things will only get really interesting again when a threat stronger than Beerus shows up… something even TUI/UE Gogeta can’t beat. Then Gohan and Broly fuse and we get a Legendary Beast mode Brohan fusion who is angel tier to save the day…. that would be awesome.

Beast Gohan can match or might even surpass Goku’s current MUI but let’s not forget what whis said that MUI isn’t the end goal but just a starting point which means MUI is still the most powerful Transformation/ technique and if Goku masters it like the angels than there is no doubt he is the strongest being in the multiverse (Aside from the angels and Zeno ofc but who knows?… U never knows when Goku shows up with a new power )

I personally think that the tier list is like this 1. Frieza 2. Goku 3. Vegeta 4. Gohan 5. Cell max or Broly 6. Cell max or Broly 7. Piccolo As you said the word “rival” is used EXTREMELY loosely not to mention that Gohan and Piccolo haven’t seen how much Goku & Vegeta have grown and also the word of Toriyama doesn’t have as much weight as it did before since he isn’t working on db as much as he did so his knowledge wouldn’t be what it used to be (also Toriyama is biased towards characters like Piccolo)

i think we all as a community should show feedbacks of approval of this different direction of power sclaing, less rigid and more based on situations, opening up the opportunity to give more relevance to oterwise marginal charachters. at this point any of them can be the protagonist of different fights. something like goten and trunk becoming experts of fusion and maybe developing a new form fro gotenks

So my reasoning of saying beast Gohan is only relative to TUI and UE is due to Toryiama WRITING THIS MOVIE (not when the movie takes place in the timeline) right after finishing the Broly movies script (this was confirmed by Toryiama himself) and he mentioned how they didn’t have the Moro arc really planned until Toyotaru had gotten his break after the TOP so it’s safe to say TUI or UE vegeta wasn’t planned yet either since these took place in the gronola arc. Not only that but piccolo nor Gohan has seen goku and vegeta since the Moro arc, Gedo couldn’t have gotten any data from the gronola arc either since it only showed data from events on EARTH. So when piccolo uses all his statements it’s most likely referring to either A the Broly movie since Toryiama only referenced it in the movie and in interviews when discussing super hero or B piccolo is comparing himself and the gammas the goku and vegeta from the Moro arc. At the end of the day we need to see them all interact with each other to see where everyone actually stands. I personally think it’s TUI goku > UE VEGETA >= beast Gohan > orange piccolo

Beast Gohan and Orange Piccolo is really strong I agree. But the fact that it could be stronger than MUI is insulting. Goku has dedicated all his life to getting stronger and had to undergo impossible trials to arrive at the state even gods of destruction had not achieved. Wtf did gohan do to get such power? Literally twiddle his thumbs studying and not giving a damn about getting stronger unless the earth was in danger. If orange Piccolo is that strong its more digestible since he also always wanted to get stronger. But Gohan? He doesn’t deserve such power

But Carthu, the issue with the entire Granola Arc point, is that Freiza is in that universe too. Meaning Freiza one shotting them MAY not actually mean that he’s several times stronger than all of them – or even stronger than Gas. Not being in a form doesn’t cause an ommission, otherwise Granola and Gas wouldn’t have surpassed Goku and Vegeta (unless they were in those forms as they made the wishes). It’d be WILDLY convenient if Freiza simply didnt have that power/form when Gas made his wish, THEN gained the power minutes after. It’d honestly just be bad writing at that point

So… with Broly training with Goku and Vegeta and the fact that Broly is a legendary super saiyan. With that in mind remember that legendary super saiyans power is fueled by rage. Now enters Gohan, throughout the series it’s been heavily implied that Gohan is docile because of his earthling side. So what if Gohan is the first legendary super saiyan of the halflings?

The way I normally logic this out is narratively – does it narratively make sense for Gohan to already be at the level to take out Black Frieza reliably? No, after what they did with Black Frieza – having him pop in to dominate and leave – he’s clearly intended to be a major threat going forward, maybe the work of an entire arc to defeat. It makes much more sense narratively if Beast Gohan and Orange Piccolo powerups are intended to bring Gohan and Piccolo up to the power scale to participate in future arcs. Possibly a scooch over Goku and Vegeta, but not so much as to make a battle between them one-sided.

I have the feeling that when they say “rivalling” they really mean their overall skill and abilities AND intelligence. Krillin is certainly nowhere near the level of the top three Saiyans, but if a fight comes down to having wits and intelligence he’s STILL right up there in the fight. Physically and ki power-wise he falls short. but like Piccolo he has creative ways to stay in the fight. that’s what I assume they mean by using “rival.” Unless they talk specifically about Gohan. Gohan has been said to be the ONLY one with a near infinite well of energy and power. it is this very, VERY deep well of energy that pushed him to turn SSJ2 in the first place. And he always seems to always have more. So personally I feel like HE is the most powerful fighter in the universe (without including fusions).

im quite certain toriyama only made these statements about gohan and piccolo being so strong because the anime went ahead and made their own plot and he was forced to agree with it to avoid the manga and anime becoming too different. its absolutely ridiculous how gohan and piccolo have essentially risen to the heights of goku and vegeta through very little effort

I think the whole point of beast gohan is to bring back the idea that gohan is the strongest person in the universe. Frankly, the end of the granolah arc could be what ties in this movie to the manga in saying that gohan is the strongest and that he has awoken his true power once again. I may be spouting nonsense because I don’t truly know the ins and outs as I don’t keep up with much info but that’s my current head canon

As someone else who mentioned about Black Frieza: The title of that manga was also The strongest in the universe arrives (or something like that) As for Jiren: We’re 2 arcs and 2 movies apart: people talk like he would be the same guy. He is still the guy that a GoD cannot defeat, a guy that took everyone to bring down including a 2 man suicide squad move. A man that almost defeated MuI and even defeated it momentarily until he did something to Goku’s friend/hacks. We dont know where he is at and if his evil doer will come back. But i feel he will still have a role. DBS still has a lot of go thru imo.

The way I understand things, Broly isn’t currently stronger than Goku or Vegeta in the Granolah arc, but would be able to surpass them in a fight if he lost control and started exponentially growing in power again. This way, them saying that Goku and Vegeta are stronger than Broly and also that Piccolo is on their level even though Cell Max would lose to Broly can make sense: Goku and Vegeta are currently stronger than Broly was in the movie, but if Broly FOUGHT Cell Max and went all out, his growth in power would be enough to beat him before Cell Max could do him in.

We can think of things in the sense of how DB has done things until now. Goku is the strongest with Vegeta being a close second, passing him sometimes when not important. Gohan is always the strongest in pure power, but he lacks everything else needed to be a real contender for GOAT, including technique to utilize said power and capability in consistently bringing out his power. Broly is effectively on pause until they want to bring him back out, at which point he’ll get even angrier and rejoin the race with the same instant spurt followed by pause. Frieza Black is insurmountably strong, the same way every villain of the week is always insurmountably strong. He’s the strongest the same way he was in the Namek arc: Yes as long as you consider it to be relevant to state he was the strongest until the end.

bear in mind, broly has hardly done any proper training. he’s been on beerus’ planet not nearly as long as goku and vegeta, and being a saiyan, he has tons of room to grow. same can be said for beerus. i’m the granolah arc, he said that because of his mindset, he has infinite potential for growth. on top of that, he’s never actually gone all out before (except against the other Destroyer Gods in the manga), so it’s not accurate to say that either Beerus or Broly are anywhere near their peak.

Broly may be currently weaker, especially since he has never had control of his power, we could assume than that he has never been able to hone said power because he wasn’t able to learn from his battles or utilize stronger techniques, plus he hasn’t started learning to use God ki yet so it could just be a matter of time before broly surpasses the z warriors again, but that would require them writing character arcs for anyone that wasn’t on namek

In my opinion, I COMPLETELY refuse comparing 2 mighty warriors have the KI of the GODS to a normal little boy just screemed with a red line behind him + we don’t know the full power of Gogeta blue yet cuz tge battle between him and Broly looks like there was a big gap between them Gogeta didn’t even Sweat and was always smiling not like his fight against hearts in SDBH (I don’t say this is canon but I mean thay gave us a hint about Gogeta’s similar character to Goku he becomes serious in the hard fights)

Logically, the strongest in the universe being prophesied is Gohan. That’s been ENDLESSLY stated to be true from the very beginning of Z. That Gohan is stronger than everyone else. That he has more potential than everyone else. That Goku thinks Gohan is stronger than him, will eventually surpass him completely in every way. While Toriyama certainly doesn’t have to honor that, it would be absurd if, after an entire two-thirds of the series reinforcing it, Gohan’s endlessly stated place in the canon was written off. As for Broly’s place in it, I think what Toriyama is implying is that Broly has no training. He knows no martial arts. And when he powers up, he has no control. That’s why there’s a comparison between him and Cell Max. If Broly trained and gained some measure of control, we’d likely see his power ramp up in a way not dissimilar to Freiza.

the broly argument is a little weird. tori’s saying he was activated early else he could beat broly. but the big thing is, cell was already completed body-wise as per the movie, the only thing specified to be incomplete is his mind control which was the part that was disrupted. so actually tori’s only referring to the idea that a complete cell max could theoretically be controlled to beat broly, but in this mind state he can’t be controlled to do so. his power remains the same.

I think Gogeta would be stronger IF he could access the same powers beyond Blue, the problem is using anything beyond that would probably drain his fusion time incredibly fast. So if Gogeta could keep something like UI or Ego active without a fusion limit, then I see him mopping the floor with Beast Gohan. Otherwise, I think it’s a close call.

Do we know if we’re getting the “Moro” and “granola” arcs in the anime? They just announced this weird new chibi dragon ball that nobody asked for, which suggests to me that they’re going to put all of their focus on that, and not release any more DBS. Super hasn’t had a new anime arc in a while. You’d think if they were going to make the other two arcs into the show, they’d have produced something by now, right?

Goku: Almost dies by his own spirit bomb (despite the spirit bomb not being able to hurt people with a pure heart) to unlock Ultra Instinct Omen Vegeta: forgets all of his inhibitions and embraces the awful things he did in the past in order to redeem himself with Ultra Ego Freeza: Trains outside of the universe secretly and exploits his privaledged biology to entirely reform his own body in a stronger state Piccolo: Fully utilizes the latent power Kami left over for him within his own body by taking on the power of Shenron Gohan: Gets really mad at an android he never met dying TWICE

goku: 119 trillion gohan: 104 trillion piccolo: 1.5 quadrillion vegeta: 120 trillion —————————————– goku ssb: 128 quintillion gohan mystic: 112 quintillion piccolo mystic: 1.5 sextrillion vegeta ssb: 129 quintillion ————————————————- vegeta ssbe: 18.7 sextrillion goku UIO: 18 sextrillion gohan mystic FP : 2.6 sextrillion semi piccolo orange: 2.25 septrillion ————————————————– goku MUI: 18.7 septrillion gohan beast: 17.5 septrillion piccolo orange form: 9.5 septrillion vegeta UE: 20.5 septrillion ————————————————– cell max: 10.5 septrillion —————————————————- goku TUI: 24.5 septrillion frieza black: 25 septrillion full power beast gohan: 29 septrillion full power ultra ego vegeta: 22.5 septrillion

Just as Oracle Fish prediction about the strongest being on the universe is not confirmed, there’s no confirmation that the timeline in the movie is directly correlated to the manga. As it is now, the manga has its own original story on top of adding the movie content after they’re released. So there’s no direct comparison with Black Frieza or Gas that didn’t actually happened yet in animated format. In fact, even Vegeta nopes the thought of sparring with Broly, implying Broly’s still stronger than Vegeta at that point (Ultra Ego isn’t even confirmed for the animation version).

I really don’t see Gohan beast beating Black Frieza or even coming anywhere close to that, he’s simply not that strong lol. The movie just made it look stupid strong but in reality Goku was too fast for Piccolo and co to even perceive after all his years of experience and training and power up till then. Literally invisible to them except Jaco, that’s just UI without any forms. They clearly had no idea of Goku and Vegeta’s true limits or extents of power, even going back all the way to blue and god not being properly sensed by them. Ain’t no way bruh. Ya’ll really think Piccolo and Gohan wouldn’t struggle with someone like Broly? Goku and Vegeta literally had to run for a bit at that time lol. Broly rampaging would be an utter disaster just like we saw, if it wasn’t for Gogeta that would have been a massacre. Even with a powerup at that stage Gohan would definitely struggle to put down Broly, and dominate in a fight against him like Gogeta did. Not unless you think you think Gohan somehow got an amp that made him go from barely Blue lvl (come on now we all know that ain’t really true) to stronger than a fricking fusion between Goku and Vegeta. Yea no, Broly is stronger than Cell Max at his best and when he’s raging. Gohan even with his ‘beast’ transformation – which should ultimately just be him finding his true self as a hybrid Saiyan-himan and unlocking his wild side that he only showed against Cell and such a few times and fusing it with his ultimate form basically. Not UI, not ultra ego, not god ki, not god ki enhanced saiyan transformation, just his max potential and his most powerful mindset and version of himself he could have that’s all – would struggle against Moro and honestly don’t see him beating some versions.

I still don’t get the whole idea of the Gamma’s being on par with Goku and Vegeta. You’re telling me that 2 robots can potentially beat superhumans with godly techniques taught to them by the strongest fighters in the entire universe? 2 robots.going up against the 2 strongest fighters in the cosmos (basing this statement off of TOP and the growth since then). Also, if Gohan has so much potential, wouldn’t Goten also have similar potential? And wouldn’t he end up being a better fighter than gohan due to how similar he is to his father as shown by his love for fighting? (Edit: ok, I watched the article to its entirety and ignore the first half of my arguement, but I still say that in a decade or so Goten should be stronger than Gohan.)

As long as he’s not finished up early in the fight, I genuinely think Broly is unmatched potential wise. He can overpower literally anyone over time. This dude in his first REAL fight was literally going head to head with blue gogeta in basically his super saiyan 1 form……. Ridiculous. I think Beast Gohan could kill Broly, but he better do it quick.

I’m stoned and got to thinking; Goku is learning UI (angel) Vegeta is learning destruction (god) Gohan has Beast (Yamoshi reincarnate)????????? Future trunks has has rage form So the rest to have a crazy transformation would be goten and young trunks (gotenks movie incoming 😉) Everyone who was part of the ssj god ritual, Everyone had to push past their limit to defeat a very personal enemy. Win or lose Maybe?